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Shoulder Planes

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Shoulder Planes

#1

Shoulder Planes

Roger

>I am looking for input on shoulder planes. I am comparing the Lie-Nielsen Large Shoulder Plane and the Veritas Large Shoulder Plane. The price differential is not that great between the two manufacturers, so price is not a consideration. What I am looking for is any input that can be provided on performance. Some of the features on the Veritas look appealing such as the pivoting cap lever knob and set screws to maintain blade positioning. The downside is that the blade is thinner .125 vice .140 on the Lie-Nielsen and � lb lighter than the Lie-Nielsen. The Lie-Nielsen planes that I own are of very high quality and I am not sure how the Veritas compares. Can anyone provide input.

TIA

Roger

Re: Shoulder Planes

#2

Re: Shoulder Planes

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>The Veritas planes are also of very high quality. You will probably have a lot of trouble finding many people who have used both of these large shoulder planes extensively and can therefore make an totally objective comparison on all points. The exception may be Lyn Mangiameli, who I think has used them both, extensively. So, I am hoping for an extensive, and as usual very objective, comparison from him.

I've had the L-N for several years, and have no issues with its performance. I have always considered it to be just about the only irreplacable tool in my arsenal. That may not longer be true.

I also have the L-V bullnose shoulder plane, and have no significant complaints about it either. The minor problems I have with it I am sure I will be able to fix quickly with some very minor fettling. I've only used the LV medium and large shoulder planes briefly, but was pleased with everything about the way they worked.

The bullnose plane doesn't have any knobs, and it definitely doesn't need any. The medium shoulder plane has a knob, and I couldn't figure out how to use it in a very few minutes of trying without it getting in my way. It's easy to take it off. If I had one, I would be sure to save the knob, right close to the plane, because it probably would not be long before I figured out a good use for it. The L-N doesn't have any knobs, and I have learned how to use it without them, without any comfort complaints. When I tried the LV large shoulder plane, I was surprised to find that the knobs actually made it easier to use for some operations.

As Joe mentioned on the other forum, the L-N, with its large size and weight can be made much easier to handle by some judicious work with a file and 600 grit sandpaper. The L-V also has a few rough edges in its casting that are just as easy to fix, but most of the edges you usually encounter with your finger tips have already been cut before the plane leaves the factory.

I do not find the lack of lateral blade adjustment mechanisms to be a problem at all on the L-N. However, since you are not paying extra for the LV adjusters, and they work well and do not get in your way, I would rate them as a minor advantage.

As far as precision of machining, cutting and sharpening quality of the steel in the blades, durability of the other metal parts, overall quality of design and manufacturing, you would be hard pressed to find any significant differences between the two. Sometimes lemons escape from the factory, though not offen for either of these, and their customer service reputations are impeccable, so that is not something you have to worry about either.

The L-N is heavier, and that is a distinct advantage when trimming shoulders, especially long, broad ones. The extra width is also useful if you will also use the plane to trim cheeks of through tenons. If you are "a Man on a Mission" these can be distinct advantages, but if all you build is Hepplewhite, they won't mean a whole lot.

Speaking of Federal furniture styles, all of these planes are too tall to use to trim the shoulders of the bridle joints in the aprons of demiluna tables. For this, you need something no higher than a Stanley #93, or a rabbet block plane (or maybe a carefully controlled paring chisel), which will also do your tenon cheeks.

Re: Shoulder Planes

#3

Re: Shoulder Planes

R.J.Whelan

>Roger ... I owned a LN 073 for several years and ended up selling it because the weight (although useful in many situations) was a problem for me. I recently bought the LV medium shoulder plane and am delighted with it (except for the swivelling knob which I haven't figure out yet - it spends most of its time removed and sitting on a shelf) ... rj

Re: Shoulder Planes

#4

Re: Shoulder Planes

Frank D. in Montreal

>Ho Roger,

I own and have used quite a bit a LN 073. I like it a lot. However, I tried the LV large shoulder plane last weekend (used it for an hour or so, so not too extensively) and if I had to buy one again I'd get the LV. I found it easier to hold with one hand (due to the grip hole in the middle but also due to the shape of the wedge and the body). The set screws for lateral positioning are nice too, since every time I adjust the blade on my LN I basically have to fiddle with the blade's lateral position to get everything right. I also like the knobs on the large LV plane, they do seem to help to get a grip on the plane, at least in my hands. I won't sell my LN 073 but as I said if I had to buy again... I think LV's shoulder planes are one of their best tools. I have the medium shoulder as well as the bullnose and am quite satisfied.

Frank

Re: Shoulder Planes

#5

Jim in Burlington Ont.

Re: Shoulder Planes

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>I've only had the LV large one for a couple weeks. I honestly wish it was lighter. I have only played around with the LN model and thought it to be quite attractive with the large brass handle however it was hard to hold onto and very awkward on it's side. The LV model is a little easier to use on it's side but not much. I do like the set screws and blade adjuster better on the LV model. I do reach for the LV medium shoulder plane 90 percent of the time it seems to just fit my hand perfectly.

Re: Shoulder Planes

#6

Anyone care to comment on the HNT shoulder planes?

Gary in Vancouver, BC

>

Re: Shoulder Planes

#7

Re: Anyone care to comment on the HNT shoulder pla

Dennis

>I'm not nearly the expert on planes as most here, but I have the 3/4" HNT and lie it alot. The quality is excellent and it feels very comfortable in my hand. Taking the blade out for sharpening is a snap. It takes a little to the feel for blade adjustment, but once you firgure it out, it's not an issue. I ostly use it to fit tenons. I don't think I would trade it even for a LN or LV. The metal plans seem to have alot of corners on them that I would think would make it less comfortable, though I haven't tried one.

I mostly use it to fit t

Re: Shoulder Planes

#8

Thanks Dennis

Gary in Vancouver, BC

>The reason I asked, is I am in the market for a shoulder plane and haven't had the opportunity to try out the LN, LV, HNT, others, etc. All comments regarding performance, comfort, and versatily are appreciated regardless of price.

Gary

Re: Shoulder Planes

#9

HNT is a different animal altogether

John K in Hastings, MN

>as it is a 60 deg bevel down shoulder as opposed to a low angle bevel up. VERY tight mouth, great for squirrely woods but not one I reach for too often. It does look great on the shelf, though.

John

Re: Shoulder Planes

#10

Re: Anyone care to comment on the HNT shoulder pla

William Duffield, on the Cohansey

>It doesn't matter a whole lot what Gordon calls them, they are rabbet planes, not shoulder planes. Their cutting geometry is all wrong for a shoulder plane, and is unsuitable for cutting end grain.

Even as rabbet planes, Gordons rely on fingers, instead of fences and stops, to define and control the width and depth of the rabbet, and thus are only appropriate for those who have developed substantial freehand skills.

Re: Shoulder Planes

#11

A review (of sorts)

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Gary

I have not used either the LN or LV shoulder planes but I own the 3/4" HNT Gordon as well as the Stanleys #92 (3/4") and #93 (1").

My Stanleys are vintage models and as tuned as they possibly could be. They do everything I could ask of a shoulder plane (but as I said I cannot compare them to the LV and LN, which could change my mind, but then I have not been tempted to find out).

The HNT Gordon was bought as much on looks as reputation. I have a few of the bench planes, which I love. I do most of my work in Australian hardwoods, and these planes were designed for that purpose. Whether one needs a bevel down shoulder plane with a 60 degree cutting angle is a little lost on me since we are either cutting across the grain (tenon faces) - although I prefer my #140 for this - or end grain shoulders. But I loved the look and it was a birthday present, so who was I to say no!

The short answer is that the HNT Gordon shoulder planes timber cuts as easily as the lower-angled-bevel-up Stanleys do. I don't think that I could choose one over the other here. As I said before, I have no reason to complain about the Stanleys, and so I have no reason to complain about the HNT Gordon (other than not having the bigger version as well).

One possible perceived negative would be the absence of adjusters. However, this is such an easy-to-acquire skill that one should not allow it to be a consideration. The plane responds well to judicious taps of a mallet, and very fine adjustments can be made. There is a "button" on the top of the plane to aid in removing the blade, and removal/insertion of the blade is probably more easily done than with screw-down planes (such as the Stanleys). This is a very simple plane, and it one big attraction for me lies in this fact.

The big plus of the HNT Gordon is that it is a very comfortable plane to hold. It is in a different class to the Stanleys of this world (and I suspect all others).

With its stunning good looks (mine is a brass and ironwood infill), it is just special to hold. It is a joy to use as a result.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Shoulder Planes

#12

You what?

Scott Burr Ben Lomond,CA

>Lie a lot about it;). Just kiddin...Scott still on tripatphane (somewhat wondering about my spelling too)...ya know the turkey emzyme...

Re: Shoulder Planes

#13

Re: Thanks for the input

Roger

>Thanks for all of the excellent input and information. I am placing an order for the Lie-Nielson.

Roger

Re: Shoulder Planes

#14

Re: Shoulder Planes

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>First, your analysis of the planes is right on the mark, relative to my experience.

I do have both the large L-N and the new large LV (and due to the kindness of Rob, WITH the brass knobs). I can't say that I have used either extensively, as I just very much prefer the medium Lee Valley shoulder (and before it, the two medium Cliftons). Part of that is likely due to my medium sized hands, and part is due to the fact that I use shoulder planes almost exclusively for shoulders, using my 140's for cheeks (where the added with of large shoulders is often appreciated).

The review thing is difficult for me. I like doing them and think there are some useful things to communicate--particularly with respect to these shoulder planes, but I've had a lot of input on the more recent LV planes and it just doesn't seem fair to compare a plane that directly represents some (and I emphasize, only some) of my sensibilities against a plane that I've had no association with. However, I do think it can be done objectively, and someday I may change my mind, but for now, I'm flogging myself for not getting out the plane type and angle study that I've put so much work into, but don't seem to get finished.

Re: Shoulder Planes

#15

Tsk, too late... *LINK*

Alice Frampton, UK

>... but just in case anyway:


Review Of L-V large shoulder plane

Re: Shoulder Planes

#16

Re: Anyone care to comment on the HNT shoulder pla

Philly

>Hi Roger,

I have the 1 1/4 inch in figured bidgeroo-it is the prettiest thing in my shop!!!

Performance is as good as it gets, although it is set with a fine mouth so you wouldn't want to remove huge chunks at a time. The 60 degree angle doesn't prevent you using it on softwoods-it works fantastically on all timbers.And it is so comfortable to hold. It has a good weight to it and powers through cuts easily.

So yup, I really like it (I have a Stanley 93 as well for the rough stuff!), and recommend you get your hands on one.

probably too late, bit hey!

regards

Philly

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