8 EBay Sellers Admit to Phony Bids

OK

Todd Hughes

>Am glad that you liked the chisel, see where you left me the Positive this past Thursday Nov. 4 am sorry you had to wait 4 long days for me to leave you one [just left it for you] but I was kind of busy this weekend and wasn't home. If I knew it was so important to you i would certainly looked at the computer some and tried to leave you a positive as soon as I recieved mine and not make you wait 4 days. Since it took you over 21 days to leave mine I wasn't sure when or if you would and I never ever, ever pester people to leave me feedback.

I normaly try to,[again try to] leave feed back in large amounts every month or so because of the number of items I sell [try to keep 30-40 things up all the time] makes it hard to do everyday but sometimes I am sure I miss people.I will never,[at least try not to] leave a positive for a person untill they leave me one because I don't know the deal has been succesfull untill then .....Todd

Re: OK

Dennis McDonaugh

>No need to get testy Todd, I was just leaving you a gentle reminder. BTW, I left your feedback the day I received the chisel. If it took 21 days to leave the feedback, then it took 21 days for me to get the chisel, which is about right considering mail both ways. Thanks again.

Re: OK

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I also do like Todd and leave feedback only one day a week. this is a buisness and things get done in an orderly timely way. it isn't required to be done every day or at all. It is a respect thing. It helps every one and no one as a seller I have verry little options If some one withs lots of bad feed back wins an auction but to send the item once it is paid for and hope for the best. As a buyer I do have the option of not buying but if some one gets lots of bad feed back they will probably open a new account any way. truly usless info in my mind.

Re: OK

Dennis McDonaugh

>Ernie, (and Todd) I understand that's the way you do business now, but I wasn't aware of it at the time I made the original post. I don't want this to become a problem between me and Todd or any other e-bay seller who happens to frequent the board. I left the post mainly because Todd was lamenting the fact that non-payment by winning bidders was common practice. A few others have also complained about people winning bids on e-bay and then not paying. That's unfortunate, but there are lame sellers as well.

As a buyer, I have certain expectations and timely shipment and leaving feedback is one of them. Its been my experience that sellers leave feedback within a day or two of receiving payment and shipping the item, or they don't leave feedback at all.

I was probably a little quick to complain about lack of feedback by Todd and if I offended you Todd, I'm sorry. It just seemed out of kilter hear him complain of buyers not following through and (from my point of view) have him not follow through on his end as a seller.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have no problem with the chisel I bought from Todd or how he handled the deal. I'd buy from him again anytime.

I guess I'm saying not all buyers on e-bay are bums and not all sellers are saints and I'd like that recognized too.

Re: feedback is optional

Dennis McDonaugh

>Feedback may be optional, but I take it seriously when I am contemplating bidding on an item, especially when it is pricey. The e-bay system isn't perfect, but feedback is all we have to gauge the reliabilty of buyers and sellers.

Re: OK

Ernie Miller Topeka

>No offence taken. Selling is a buisness for some people and they work hard at it. Just don't EVER ACUSE Todd of working he won't beleave you. Time is money and you have to use it wiseley and that is why some people only do the feed back ocasionaly and all at one time. I don't think all buyers are bad and on the contrary most are good or I would not be listing stuff. I bet Todd would tell you the same thing. It's easy to miss things by not seeing both sides of the coin so I have even started buying things there just to get the feal for that side of the game. I look at this thread as several people discussing the subject over coffee and trying to figure out how to slip the tab to one of the others. I'll take you to breakfast any day you will pick up the tab.

Re: feedback is optional

Ernie Miller Topeka

>People don't leave bad feed back unless the other person has allready left feed back or they will get burned with bad feed back for that person. I leave a standard feed back Fast Payment easy to deal with would like to do buisness again. now if payment was slow I might leave off Fast payment or if they were a pain in the but I might leave off would like to do buisness again. if they send a thousant e-mails wanting a reply to every one I might leave out easy to deal with. I am more inclined to leave no feed back at all than negative. Disclaimer!! If any one here has bought somthing from me and I left somthing out I was on cold medacine at the time and didn't know what I was doing. That covers my ass. I hope.

Re: OK

Todd Hughes

>I really don't see how you can equate someone that doesn't pay thier bills for what they bought with somebody that doesn't leave feedback. When as the high bidder you bought a chisel off me and that is it you bought a chisel, you did not buy feedback from me. While as a seller I have an obligation to describe the item accuratly and to ship it in a timely manner after getting payment,[which I did] I have no obligation to supply the optional service of feedback just like while I can certainly expect payment from you for what you bought I do not expect part of the payment to be feedback left for me. May be nice to leave feedback and the thing to do but it is not a requiment,[thats why it's optional].

Will be straight with you , can't imagine me [or anyone for that matter] posting a post here saying...."Hey Dennis when are you going to leave me my feedback on that chisel you bought off me last week" Todd

Re: OK

Dennis McDonaugh

>Todd, you have your opinion and I have mine. Unfortunately, they differ. Reasonable people can disagree and still be reasonable and I think we have. Thanks again for the chisel and the feedback.

Re: OK

Dennis McDonaugh

>Ernie, that's mighty kind of you, but its already too cold in Kansas for me so I'll have to take a rain check. Maybe next summer!

What! To Cold in KS?

Ernie Miller Topeka

>It's 70� here today I'm working in my boxer shorts

Re: TMI...TMI

Rob in Kansas

>Boxer shorts! That's Too Much Information!

Re: ebay feedback

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Dennis, for the past 6 or 8 months of ebay bidding (not all that much bidding, really, more casual), I've adopted a new approach. I pay via Paypal immediately, and in the comment/instruction line I add a note that "Since I've now completed my part of this transaction with speed, I expect you to provide positive feedback as soon as possible."

And on receipt of the item, I check for the seller's feedback before posting mine. No feedback, I send one, and one only, email asking for feedback. Under no circumstances do I give a seller feedback first.

My reasons for this are numerous, mainly having been bitten several times as a seller; so then I dissected an ebay transaction and realized it can be divided into 4 transaction events, with feedback appropriate at 2 of them. They are: bidding, paying, shipping, and receipt. Of course, there are more if there's any dissatisfaction on the buyer's part when the item is received.

At any rate, on paying the buyer loses control and has performed all actions required by him/her. I think that's the most appropriate time for seller's feedback on the buyer's performance. On shipping, the seller loses control and has to wait for the buyer to acknowledge receipt and condition. On receipt is the only time the buyer can provide feedback for the seller.

I don't deviate from this path.

Pam

Got a bad mental pic here too!

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>

I've stopped leaving feedback first

Derek

>I don't buy much on ebay, but after over 25% of the sellers did not bother to leave feedback even after I left positive feedback for them and was a great buyer (prompt payment, good communication, etc) I gave up - unless the seller leaves it for me. I've emailed them and gotten nothing in response.

From my experience, many sellers don't care once they have your money.

Re: ebay feedback

Dennis McDonaugh

>Pam, that sounds like a good plan. I haven't sold anything on e-bay, but I do have a few purchases where the seller didn't leave feedback. Due to the nature of the market, I think feedback is part of the transaction.

Re: ebay feedback

Todd Hughes

>Any seller that leaves feedback befor getting one is just not thinking and looking for trouble.A buyer knows if the deal went well when he gets the item , if it is as described and was it sent in a timely matter is readly apparent.What can go wrong for the buyer after he gets the item and leaves feedback if he sent payment in a timely matter?...Now for a seller LOTS can go wrong after he gets payment heres a few....Buyer says he doesn't want insurance item get lost and he wants you to pay for it,[hey why pay extra for insurance the seller will cover me].... Item was described as being rusted, buyer is upset because, yup item is rusted....Item arrived safley but buyer says it could have been damaged because wrapping wasn't up to thier expectations, wasn't damaged mind you but could have been [I actually got a neutral over this after leaving a positive first...never again. Item was a brass and wood book binding tool you could have dropped off a Mt. with out hurting it]....Check can bounce....buyer could leave you a negative because you charged them .34 cents to much postage [happened to me!]....buyer could leave you a negative because they think the Starret marking on a $12 punch is "spurious"[!?] Happened to me.....A buyer thinks a tool described as Very Good means it should look Mint just no box,[actually had this told to me]...In short you never know the trouble you might have till the feedback is left for you

I don't think many sellers are going to hold you over a barrel after they get paid and send you the item, Why would they?....but it can be a different thing with buyers and as a seller you just never know.......Todd

Re: ebay feedback

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I got some resistance to this at first; but apparently it's spreading, no seller has voiced a problem for the last 3 or 4 months. Some don't provide feedback, which I'm sure is their form of complaint; but then I don't either.

Basically it comes down to respect for both sides of a full transaction. And the fact that I pay so rapidly must contribute to the seller's comfort. If a buyer charges more than I think appropriate for shipping, I can protest at or before the transaction's close, negotiate an amount.

I'm sure you come across some weird people; but maybe if you were to give them positive feedback right away, they'd feel a bit more generous with you.

Pam

Re: ebay feedback

joel

>If you have trouble with people declining insurance than insisting on a refund if the item is lost - why don't you just require insurance - the more responsible customers will want it anyway.

As for packaging - good, overkill packaging helps a customer form a positive impression when the box is opened.

(David STanley wraps everything in tissue paper, then tightly wadded newspaper, and plane parts are indivdually wrapped so wedges etc don't get broken or items destroy each other in the box. And he charges extra for packing like it or not - worth every penny)

Offer an unconditional refund for the picky buyer who feels the "Starret marking on a $12 punch is "spurious"". I won't deal with anyone who won't and what you will find is that customers will pay a premium because they know you stand behind everything.

Publish your rating system. How you arrive at a very good, as opposed to fair, as opposed to fine. It won't solve all the problems but it will solve a lot of description problems.

I have mostly stopped buying on Ebay. As a customer I take a big risk every time I put money in the mail, most of the time everything works out fine. but there have been enough hiccups to make me nervous and I'm a little gunshy these days. I do buy a tremndous amount on-line (mostly books) - but always from sellers (all over the world) who guarenttee what they sell and are known.

If I bid on ebay it's usually a little bid just for fun, or for an obvious item that cannot be misdescribed.

Note: I have never bought anything from you, I have no opinion on your business and am only commenting on your complaints you just published and how to minimize them. I tihnk as the entire on-line auction world matures customer expectations will grow and the average level of service of successfull repeat sellers such as yourself will go higher and higher.

There it is!

Bob Hackett

>As they say,the bottom line is the dollar sign.

Strange how those same slow/no good feedback sellers are the ones who seem most apt to jump the gun on leaving BAD feedback though.

Mainely,Bob

Re: ebay feedback

Todd Hughes

>I don't think it is my bussiness telling people what they should do with thier property which is what i would be doing if I told them they had to insure it when i sent it to them. I give them the option to chose for thier self, always tell them "it is thier choice and thier risk". I can tell you straight if I told everybody they HAD to insure the item many people would complain. Most people do not want things sent insured and in the vast majority of times it is not needed.Maybe once out of 1000 mailings,[if that] do I have any problims.

The book binding tool that was not packaged to the buyers like was wraped in newspaper....remember was not damaged.I have only ever had one thing broken in shipping in the past couple years out of 1,000s sent.I would never charge extra for packing.

The buyer of the "spurious" $12 starret left me a negative with out ever emailing me anything about it.I would have to be Amazing Kreskin to know he was not happy with it before and to offer him a refund befor he left me a negative.If he had emailed me first I would have certainly refunded his $12...he didn't.

I describe everything very carefully.I did not just say Plane is Very good and leave it to the buyers imagination that a very good plane is really Mint with out a box. Said plane had 90%+ Jappaning with scratches on the sole from light use, etc.I think it is better to describe the actual condition of the tool down to the smallest detail instead of just saying Very Good and leaving it at that as it can mean different things to different people. But 90%+ Jappaning with scratches on the sole from light use I think is easly understood by most people. Plane was as described but not as he imagined I guess........Todd

sharp on a stick

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>I'm pretty happy if the tool lives up to expectations, that is - it's described accurately and has good pictures from all sides. I'd rather see the seller spend his/her time describing a tool and posting good pictures then telling me how prompt my payment is (which I already know) and how he/she would like to do business with me again.. I usually post feedback when I'm on ebay rather than going to ebay just to post a feedback.

I remember winning a plane from Mr. Peabody, and jokingly asked him if oldtool standard terms applied. I recieved the plane three days later and certainly before my check cleared and maybe even was recieved. I will definitely do business with Mr. Peabody again because he doesn't seel junk, whether or not he left me feedback or not really ain't no big deal.

regards

Jonathan

Re: ebay feedback

joel

>THat's all fine - if the problems are so rare I just wondering why you have such an iron clad rule about leaving feedback. Your inital post seemed to imply that this sort of problem happens all the time.

Re: ebay feedback

Todd Hughes

>It doesn't happen all the time, don't think I inplied that actually I do belive I said the exact oppersite when I said out of over 4,500 positives I only had 8 negatives [5 of which was from people that never paid me].I do think one of the reasons that I don't have more negatives is that I don't leave a positive till I get positive feedback.

I don't get into car accidents all the time either....but I still wear my seat belt Todd

Re: ebay feedback

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Funny, tonight I bought a couple of things for the guitar project, paid as usual, the seller sent a message that bragged that he provided positive feedback on payment. It was so cool.

Pam