Japanese waterstone question

Re: Japanese waterstone question *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>You may want to visit the Hiraide forums, in which there's a whole section on tool sharpening with visits from time to time of some real experts.

I can try to answer your question here, but please note, I'm not an expert. The basic answer on natural stone grits is that it doesn't matter, nor does anyone really know. Basically soft and hard are talked about. It's something that you need to try on a given tool, and performance varies depending on the tool/stone combination.

Pam


Hiraide forum

has the stone become loaded

Ian N in Sydney

>Derek

It seems very strange that you are having a problem using the Nagura stone to produce a slurry. Others certainly know more than I but I always understood that a Nagura stone was soft and should produce a slurry on almost any fine rock.

Is it possible that the stone has become loaded with microscopic metal particles?

Re: has the stone become loaded

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>Ian

I don't know. That is why I am asking. I have not treated this stone any differently from my 6000. Mmm, perhaps that is the problem - that it is different?! Outside of regular flattenings on drywall mesh, the 6000 is treated differently to the 800 and 1200. The latter are left soaking in water, while the 6000 is spritzed with water before use. A Nagura creates a nice slurry, so I assume all is OK. I do this with the natural stone and it does not work. I have noticed that this stone soaks up water (I have to spritz it frequently, and it soaks up water like blotting paper). So maybe this stone needs more water? Can anyone tell me their experiences with natural stones in this regard?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Japanese waterstone question *LINK*

Frank D. in Montreal

>Hi Derek,

I'm about the farthest thing from an expert, but about the matte finish, don't let it mislead you. A friend of mine on another forum compared blades aharpened with an 8000 and a Honyama stone under the microscope, and even if the Honyama left a cloudy finish (as opposed to the mirror finish of the 8000) it still left what appeared to be a finer edge. I'll throw in the link if you want to see the pictures, but the text is in French (there are 2 series of pictures, the ones toward the bottom are better).

Frank


http://www.lamortaise.com/modules.php?name=Forums&

Matte Surfaces from Waterstones *LINK*

Steve Elliott

>Thanks for an interesting link. Now I just have to learn French.

I used the same model of microscope and came to the same conclusion about the high quality of the matte-appearing surfaces left by waterstones. My images can be seen at the link below. I've done some more work since I wrote the linked page, and have found that a Norton 8000x waterstone produces a finer edge than the Takenoko stone. The Norton also leaves a matte surface. For an image of that edge, follow the link to the home page.


Microscope Images

Re: Matte Surfaces from Waterstones

Frank D. in Montreal

>Thank YOU for the interesting link Steve :)

I posted your findings in the thread on the other forum and I also provided a link to your page. So much for wasting time getting rid of that "frosty" finish....

Frank

Re: has the stone become loaded

Alan Hamilton

>Derek,

"Aha!" he exclaimed knowingly.

I keep four stones ready for use: an 800 grit, a 1200, a 4000, and a 6000. I keep all four in a Tupperware thingey covered with water. (The only stone I allow to dry out is my green stone.) Despite warnings of immediate failure and dire consequences, my two polishing stones have been soaking since about 1984 and I've had no troubles whatever.

I used to follow the advice that the two polishing stones should be kept dry and spritzed with water during use. I had problems similar to yours: the main trouble was that I couldn't get a slurry going with my Nagura stone. They work much better since I began keeping them wet. My Nagura stone now whips up an admirable slurry.

Alan

Alan a question, kinda drifting OT

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Is your green stone a corse stone (120) grit?

Re: Matte Surfaces from Waterstones

Jeff Mackay

>Here's the text of the original post as translated by an online translator (http://www.worldlingo.com/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html):

Not perfect, but you should be able to get the gist of what he's trying to say...

While reading on a site that Lac recommended in the wire of discussion relating to the manufacture of scissors, I saw that the type used the microscope of INTEL to make its tests. That lit me.

HTTP://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/bladetest.HTML

The year spent, I got a natural stone of Honyama completion. I found that this stone did not give a as beautiful polish as the synthetic stones. In fact, the polish seems a little milky, a polish a little less beautiful than stone 4000. However, the blades seem to be as sharp as when I pass them on stone 8000. I discussed the thing with Steve Knight and he said to me that the polish is not a pledge of best slicing. This guy knows himself there in grinding. But I was not completely convinced.

I have since an end of time the microscope of INTEL. Then, I had fun a little and I made photographs of three scissors of Japanese cabinetmaker Matsumura auguized with the stones 4000, 8000 and honyama. I let to you judge result.

Re: Matte Surfaces from Waterstones

steve knight

>very true. till I used the shapton stones my edges were never shiny. Now they shine but are no sharper.

add more water ... sounds like Spike Milligan

Ian N in Sydney

>I'm no ceramic or stone specialist, but based on what you have described it sounds very much as though the primary difference between this stone and your 6000 is its water absorbion.

Does the stone cut faster after you flatten it?

If so I'd strongly favour the "loaded stone" (as opposed to loaded dog) theory.

Maybe you see how it performs if you flatten the stone and then keep it wet.

On the subject of wetting 6000 stones, I keep mine dry but find it needs to be flooded, rather than spritzed, before use.

Ian

Microscope/Camera Question.

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>That is one strange looking microscope!

Where is the camera? Is it built into it?

Microscope Connects to Computer

Steve Elliott

>The microscope is basically a very cheap digital camera with lenses that magnify the object for 10x, 60x and 200x views. Instead of an eyepiece to look through, the images appear on your computer screen.

Re: Alan a question, kinda drifting OT

Alan Hamilton

>Scott,

It's a very coarse stone. I'm not positive about the number, but I think it's a 240 grit. I don't use it very often, only when I have to remove lots of steel.

Alan

Thanks Alan...

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>I picked one up at a yard sale a while back. Mines 120 grit from what I can make out on the box. I'm still learning to read Japanese;). I couldn't tell if it was a water stone or not.

Thanks again for your reply.