Lie Nielsen on eBay *LINK*

Re: Lie Nielsen on eBay

Patrick Gibbons, mcgdogm, TX

>I always wonder the same thing. It makes me believe that the use of confederates to inflate a bid is more widespread than some let on. I have seen too many auctions that were questionable where bids began almost as soon as an item was listed and the item in question was grossly overpriced, in bad shape, etc.

Re: Lie Nielsen on eBay

fkrow

>Years ago I collected old pocket knives. One of the more active sellers was a retired V.P. of Sales from a major USA knife manuf. He told me personally that he had several e-mail accounts and eBay accounts......he felt that if a auction was not selling at a price high enough,,,,he had the right to log on with a new user i.d. and bid against himself. If he won his own bid,,,the item would be listed again at a later time.

Old tools are much more interesting than pocket knives.

Regards,

Fred Krow

One reason is ..

Gary in Vancouver, BC

>If you live in Canada, purchasing goods directly from the US, incurrs an additional 7% GST tax and about another 7% provincial tax (depending on which province). So even paying the LN list price on ebay and adding the shipping cost, will be lower than buying it direct from LN or Ron Cosman (sells for LN in Canada)

Having said that, I haven't personally done this since the savings are small and after all you are bidding on a used tool.

Gary

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Hi Gary,

I live in Burnaby (suburb beside Vancouver) and when I buy tools from Rob Cosman I pay GST only and his exchange rate is lower then the banks.

I spend allot of time counting my pennies and can say that Rob's prices are pretty good considering you don;t have to pay the brokerage fees either.

Rob is a wealth of information and more then willing to help out with ideas on ways to complete projects even if they don;t involve buying a tool from him.

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

Re: Rob

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>I do not know about buying LN in Canada (how would I?), but I have also found Rob Cosman to be a fount of info about tools and tool usage.

FWIW, YMMV, IANAE.

Re: Rob

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>Rob has a biased view on which tools he think work best and I tend to agree with him.

For a long time I kept thinking I could buy LN tools someplace else cheaper but once you factor in both sales taxes (PST and GST plus brokerage fees) you would have been better off buying them from Rob and he really is a wealth of information.

Dan C

Re: Rob

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>This is not only a biased view, it's very self-serving financially. I mean, really, LN tools are very good tools; but the "best?" Only sometimes. And that's such a nebulous issue to begin with, given that different jobs demand different types of tools.

So, the question is whether he sells LN because they're the "best" or are LN tools the "best" because he sells them and LN, in turn, sells him (dvds). Oh, well, I guess the way things are going we'll all have to work as salespeople to have jobs; so there are some lessons to be learned here.

His pitch definitely makes the buyers feel good about themselves, no harm there unless it evidences itself as snobbery; and he's certainly an expert at making missionaries.

I have to say that I find the experienced woodworkers here more reliable, at least in aggregate, when it comes to recommendations and help.

Pam

Re: One reason is ..

Dale Stansbery

>did you notice that if you're outside the US, the shipping is a $million?

Re: Rob

Patrick Gibbons, mcgdogm, TX

>Pam, I'm a salesman, though unemployed right now. I am always amazed at the negative bias so many exhibit concerning marketing and sales. A salesman generates business. Without his/her efforts the business will whither and die. Each salesman, doing his job, allows twenty other people to have a job. If a salesman doesn't believe in what he's doing than no one will. The one technique a salesman does not use is holding a gun to the head of a prospective customer. Yes there are certain sales that are non-repetitive and these transactions lend themselves to unethical tactics. But most salesmen see their customers again. You don't get many repeat sales from those you've fleeced. I don't know anything about Rob but I do know that the quality and preeminence of Lie-Nielsen planes and tools is a subjective judgement. For Rob to be worth his salt he must believe that everyone will benefit from owning a Lie-Nielsen tool. Ultimately it's up to the individual to decide if Rob is right.

Re: Rob

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Truly didn't intend to slam salespeople, just to comment that all other jobs appear to be disappearing, which isn't at all cool for those of us who aren't sales oriented. God forbid that this country actually make anything.

The point of my message was intended to be to watch out for those who whip up your (impersonal) emotions to sell you a tool, or TV, or whatever, particularly when those appeals make you feel superior, better than those peasants out there who use something inferior. Often it's advisable to step back and carefully assess what the person is selling and why it's being pitched in such a manner.

Pam

Agree and disagree (very friendly)

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>I share your passion that our country and our people need to make things. The LIe-Nielsen Co. does make things. Robin is part of the team which makes things. Surely LN passes the 'makes things' test.

I'm real sympathetic to the 'watch out for those who would whip up your emotions to sell you...whatever'. We're swimming in sophisticated advertising at every moment, and sometimes the real message is hidden. But Robin is not an ad agency. He's living his beliefs. His skin is totally on the line. He demonstrates his product, and lets you use his plane--and apparently will take it apart and let you use his blade in your plane. In my opinion, he's not to be 'watched out for...' , nor are our other tool-makers who sell what they make and support their customers--namely, us.

Pam, I like both ends of your message, but I believe Rob is the wrong target. BTW, I don't know him, other than through one or two emails, which he is very prompt to answer. Like his boss.

Wiley

Re: Agree and disagree (very friendly)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>OK, probably I over react to this type sales pitch, it may be a defense mechanism, trying to guard my wallet, not buying something I don't need, and definitely avoiding getting bullied into buying something. This also could be a female/male thing. I've noticed a lot of men react with much more compliance to this type of authority than I do. Witness Microsoft, IBM, Ronald Reagan, etc.

So far as I know, Rob is not a LN employee; nor is he my target. I wish him well, but also wish he'd moderate the pitch and more fully educate his missionaries (or at least the ones who show up here). It's this absolute faith, certainty, that LN is the best that irritates, makes me question, and ultimately pushes me away. In this very complicated world, there's much room for considered doubt. I am not always right, I seriously doubt that you are, and I know Rob's not.

Meanwhile, there's Tom LN out there making some great stuff, which I appreciate; and in my dealings directly with Tom, I have no complaints. We've never had any deal that was performed with other than full respect. After all, he made the 62 LA jack, which was the first hand plane I was able to put to work, got me started on all this. I'm a loyal customer.

Pam

dejuvu all over again

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>

Hey Yogi !

Bob Hackett

>Watch your pick-a-nik basket.

Mainely,Boo Boo.

Thanks Wiely!

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>I told myself I wouldn't respond to this thread but I am back.

I buy tools only from reputable companies and people that stand behind their products. I also don't have allot of money so when I buy something I usually have done allot of research beforehand and that involves talking to allot of end users.

When I have seen Rob at Woodshow's he has always been very helpful and thoughtful towards customers.

When someone tells Rob they want a specific plane he asked what they wanted to do with it. He would sometimes offer up another option even though the plane he is offering is less expensive then the client chosen plane. If the client said thanks for your opinion but I'd like to purchase the one I came for that was fine as well.

Two of my friends bought dovetail saws from Rob this year after trying ut a friends saw many months before. The saw was paid for and Rob could have sent them on their way (he didn;t woe them anything the sale was done) but instead he pulled each saw out of the box and checked the cut and then showed them how to use them offering tips. They left after the doevtail demo and are quite pleased with their new toys.

Another man showed up with a jointer he had purchased in years gone by complaining it didn't work right. ROb pulled it out looked it over, showed the customer how he sharpens, put the blade back in and made six ten thou shavings with it on highly figured curly maple. The customer left happy with out buying anything.

Most people who bought tools from Rob left the booth with a tool that had been sharpened by Rob himself and it was usually a lesson on how to sharpen for the new buyer. The plane was then tested on a piece of wood. In the end these customers went home with a sharp plane knowing how it should perform.

Guess what I am saying is he works damn hard and shows allot of pride in the tools he sells. I couldn't imagine having anyone else at a woodshow demo'ing Lie Nielsen tools as it just wouldn't be the same. he wears his heart on his sleeve.

I was going to buy a LN tool at the show anyhow. Rob and I had talked about the 5 1/2 this past summer when I was questioning him about Scraper planes. I will probably buy a scraper plane someday but because my goal has always been to finish with a planed surface I want to continue with that plan.

I had tospeak up in defence of Rob as I believe he is doing an excellent job selling the product line he sells and wants all of his customers to believe in the product as well.

That is a good salesman in my mind,

Dan Clermont

OOPS I meant Thanks Wiley ;)

Dan Clermont in Burnaby

>

Re: dejuvu all over again *LOL*

Gene C.

>

Land O Lakes?

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>

It's almost comical.

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>

Re: It's almost comical.

Bob Hackett

>This brings to mind something said by one of the Drill Sgts I worked with.

Now Sgt Armor(aptly named,He was built like a tank)was a man of very few words so we were all shocked by his comment.

When asked for his opinion at a battalion staff meeting he replied "The depth of your inability to grasp the true problem at hand is nearly overwhelming".

The officer he was speaking to was known for his inability to admit mistakes and had a history of sidestepping issues.I believe he went into politics after he got out of the service.

Mainely,Bob

Lie Nielsen on Tarisio *LINK*

John Jesseph

>Here's another LN that I was watching, on a violin auction house site. This was owned by a luthier in Boston. I don't think that added to the price. Add the 15 percent buyer's premium- it went for more than forty bucks over full retail, not to mention the recurring Woodcraft ten percent off sales. I'm thinking about having Tarisio sell all my LN planes!


LN 8 bid history

Elegant

Matti Kuikka

>

Thanks, Bob, that's just what I was going to say.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>