Mortice chisels... and more

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

Tim of San Leandro

>"Is there a set (in the pipeline) from Thomas Lie Nielsen?"

Give them a call. Put yourself on the waiting list. I'm lucky....I got a chance to hold AND use a prototype mortise chisel. Similar to their bench but for mortising....similar length dimensions but obviously a bit more A2 for the same width.

Tim

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Hi Conger,

I am looking for straight sided (i.e. not 'bevel edged') mortice chisels.

I have heard that these give the best registration when cutting mortices.

From whom did you glean that tidbit? Hopefully no one here! Square sided mortisers are much more difficult to use and control. I think they are only available because they are cheap to manufacture.

I will be mostly working with maple, cherry, pear etc.

I don't know if your european pears are different from those in the US. I certainly wouldn't volunteer to cut mortises in it. Maple is not much more fun. Oak isn't so bad when its straight and not too dry.

Here's a question for you:

Is the wood in Europe metric? Or is it metric equivalents of Standard?

In a thread below, I expressed my disatisfaction with ECE's metric plow irons. They offer several sizes, all of them wrong (5,7,9mm). To make matters worse, that other German company (sometimes i think they are all one company) that makes mortisers makes the right sizes (6,8).

There's probably some reason for these mixed up sizes. Are 5,7,9 standard plywood thicknesses for example? What sizes is the standard hardwood sold in over there?

Adam

P.S. I think you'd do better with german mortisers. Never seen a better new mortise chisel than those. Even the handle is right.

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

paul womack

>Square sided mortisers are much more difficult to use and control.

So what shape do you recommend? I'am assuming you're not recommending (what most people call...) bevel edged chisels, since IIRC you don't have any, and consider them unneccessary even for DT work.

I use traditional British morticing chisels which are essentially rectilinear in cross section, which is what I'm assuming you mean when you say "square". They work brilliantly well, and carry a high price on the USA s/h market.

BugBear

Re: Mortice chisels / Lie-Nielsen ww show findings

MT

>The Lie-Nielsen mortise chisels, or one 1/2" at least, were on display at the woodworking show I went to last weekend and are still in pre-production. Very nice size, can't wait to get a set. They aren't as big as Jim Wilson's but are closer in overall size to the bench model with the handles being close in size if not the same as the bench model. The blade is longer and of course quite a bit thicker. I have some really old socket mortise chisels I found at an antique store of similar size and I really like the size for doing most furniture work. According to the rep they will be out shortly as now they can only make the bench or mortise but not both at the same time. So they make a bunch of bench and then have to stop and switch some stuff and make some mortise. The rep thought the available sizes are going to be 1/8" to 1/2" but wasn't quite sure about the 1/8". They did let me order some at the show though so they must be close to releasing them.

Also, the new panel saws they are coming out with look really nice. The first ones will be 20" or 22", I can't remember which it was, but also according to the rep 26" models are in the works. The booth setup was really nice, it was the first time I have seen them at a show. They had a bench that was one of the upcoming models for sale. You will be able to order any height, length, width, vise config, and with/without a tool tray. The top is 2.5" thick with a 5" apron and starts at $1800. Overall I was impressed with the booth, I think they had at least one of every tool out for you to try and a pile of wood to try it on. It was manned by two people, one that really knew his stuff and an assistant which seemed to work out very well.

MT

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Some feel that mortise chisels with a trapezoidal cross-section, which more easily allow for steering changes, are superior to those with a square cross-section.

get out your try square

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Bug,

Get out your try square and check your older mortiser's cross section. You will find none to be rectangular. The sides are always eased a few degrees. The bevel is slight and hard to detect with the naked eye. This is equally true of sash mortise chisels and the joiners' mortise chisels alike.

You can think of it like the set on a saw. It reduces friction. Moreover, it allows the sides of the tool to be precisely ground to a consistent width.

A square chisel won't help Conger "register" on the walls of the mortise. Straightness is never achieved in this manner. Instead, we see straightness achieved with a longer tool, or in this case (as in sawing) by laying more of the tool down into the cut.

The notion that you will get a straight mortise by pounding the chisel straight down into the wood has never been accepted. In fact, I believe this is a discussion/argument that's been going on for the last 500 years between the Joiners' Guild and the Carpenters' (who thought they could make furniture by bashing a framing chisel into the work as they would a timber frame). The argument was settled in 1632, but the secrecy of the joiners' guild has maintained our confusion and frustration.

Adam

Re: get out your try square

paul womack

>The sides are always eased a few degrees. The bevel is slight and hard to detect with the naked eye.

Ah - when you said "not square" I though you had some significantly different shape in mind. not just square with some "easing".

oldtools thread

There's some interesting ideas revolving around the arris on the bevel.

Morticing on oldtools

Jeff Gorman followed this up

BugBear

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

CONGER - The Irish diaspora in Munich

>Hi A, and the others who got involved.

>>>Is the wood in Europe metric?

Yes.

>>>Or is it metric equivalents of Standard?

Standard?

>>>What sizes is the standard hardwood sold in over there?

The 'plank' from the tree is a nominal 25mm -- or multiple thereof.

>>>I think you'd do better with german mortisers.

Have ordered from the company in Maine.

Thanks for the tips........ -g-

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

Tom Colligan, Peoria

>I use traditional British morticing chisels. . . They work brilliantly well, and carry a high price on the USA s/h market.

Bugbear, what is the brand mortise chisel you like? Thx.,

Re: Mortice chisels... and more

paul womack

>Bugbear, what is the brand mortise chisel you like? Thx.,

I've yet to find a mortice chisel in this style that isn't good. I suppose they're out there, but I've yet to find one.

If you insist on names, I'll just list all the ones I've got (from memory)

• Ward & Payne
  
  
• Hearnshaw
  
  
• I Sorby (not current Robert)
  
  
• Marples (old Marples, that is)
  
  
• Ibbotson(sp?)
  
  
• Moseley
  
  

They all work fine. I suspect that any of the "old names" would work just as well. Britain appears to have many, many more chisel brands the USA.

BugBear