Best/Quickest way to hand rip?

Re: Best/Quickest way to hand rip?

Tim of San Leandro

>Of course a saw with sharp points/teeth will do better than a saw with rounded points....

I'm not aware of much other than a saw - hand or electron powered - to rip a board to width.

I don't like using a frame saw/bow saw for straight cuts. I like japanese pull saws and use an appropriately sized (well, as close as I can with my limited arsenal) ryoba saw to rip. but most times I fire up the bandsaw or the tablesaw.....You'll want different points/inch depending the the thickness of the board you are ripping...in general. Also, gullet size can affect sawing efficiency...IIRC, deeper gullets for softer woods, though there is a wide range that is appropriate. Be sure to have some wedges and some tape around....but I'd guess you know that already.

For me...thicknessing and ripping to width are where electron tools are very appreciated.

Tim

Splitting/Hewing

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Fastest? Splitting is fastest. Hewing is next. No way to beat it for speed.

As for sharp saws:

Just for the sake of talking- I can rip up to 2" per stroke in 4/4 pine, 1 to 1-1/2"/stroke in 4/4 hardwoods. So if you do the math, you should come up with a 5' rip in a matter of a few minutes. That's how fast a hand saw can go.

I can't come close with a framed saw or a japanese saw, but I know its possible at least with the framed saw.

I'm told a pit saw can go 6"/minute through a 1' thick log.

Adam

Re: Splitting/Hewing

Joel Oswald

>1 inch a stroke?? It takes me like 5 strokes an inch in one inch oak! I'll have to find a nice old disston and get it sharpened, once I get money.....

Thanks for the help

Re: Splitting/Hewing

Wolfgang Jordan

>> I can rip up to 2" per stroke in 4/4 pine, 1 to 1-1/2"/stroke in 4/4 hardwoods

Adam,

could you give us some details, which saw you use, tpi, rake angle etc.

Wolfgang

Re: 1" per stroke in hardwood

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>I wish there were some way you could back up that statement with good hard evidence, as it sounds like baloney to me.

Re: 1" per stroke in hardwood

George Makowski

>I must hold with Adam. His results are close to mine with my 1940s D 8 clone when jointed, sharp, and set. I don't get quite as long a cut because I don't do it enough to have the stroke in muscle memory at all times but Adam's cut is within what I think of as the norm for a well prepared rip saw.

I have found that knowing the rhythm of your saw is crucial so that you put just the effort into each stroke that gets an optimal cut without stalling the saw. Also using the whole blade of the saw from tip to up under the handle with a steady motion from the toes through the hips to the shoulders and hand. Last, holding the stock on a low set of horses or sawing bench so that you can apply the full motion of your body at a comfortable angle makes a difference.

And, as always in hand work, "festina lente", make haste slowly.

Good sawing,

George in AL

Re: 1" per stroke in hardwood

deanj

>I'll back Adam up as well. I however find that framed saws are faster for me. Could be I just haven't found the right panel rip saw. But at any rate I was ripping soft maple, 5 point frame saw, minimal set, very agressive rake (pain in the tush to start for me), 28" blade. If you use the entire blade in your stroke ~1" per stroke is doable.

Sharp is good.

Dean

How about 2" per stroke in hardwood?

Roger Nixon

>Here is a pic of me trying out a framed saw made by Jr. Strasil. We were playing around ripping a piece of 3/4" white oak. Jr. could get 2" per stroke easily. I couldn't do so well but I could get better than 1" per stroke. Sitting and cutting with the saw held vertically is much easier than anything else I've tried but you have to get up and move the workpiece often.

Re: 1" per stroke in hardwood

Don Thompson - South of Miami

>The good, hard evidence would be for him to demonstrate to you the ripping of a board. Drive over to his shop, and I am sure that he can oblige you.

I feel sure that Adam can judge 1" very well, and that he has had plenty of opportunity to do so considering his experience at ripping by hand for Pensbury.

Not in Adam's or others

Scott Burr in Ben Lomond CA

>Leauge here... I can get 1" or so with a 5 tip D8 in softwood/construction lumber. In hardwood same type of saw, less set about .5+" if I'm lucky. I'm learning lot about saw now as I lacking a lot here.

Now if only I could cut a stright line...

Re: Best/Quickest way to hand rip?

mike recchione

>It depends on what you're doing. Like Adam says, a good sharp saw certainly helps. (I'm nowhere as big as Adam, but my results come close to his claims with a sharp saw. And there's no saw easier to sharpen yourself than a traditional rip saw.)

Having said that, I try to avoid ripping when I can, doing it only when I want to use both halves of the board. If it's a matter of trimming an inch or two off to get to the width needed, I find it's faster and less effort to use a carpenter's hatchet (if the grain is reasonable), followed by a drawknife.

Zen Master Mike!

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>The fastest rip is no rip at all! I love it and agree wholeheartedly.

If there was one lesson I've learned that would benefit all woodworkers, this would be it: Sawing by hand allows you to build furniture faster, because you quickly find ways to avoid sawing altogether!

Adam

Looking at the far mountain

Sawing by hand...

Don Thompson - South of Miami

>...allows you to build furniture faster, because you quickly find ways to avoid sawing altogether!

I love that! I think I shall post it in my shop.

Re: Best/Quickest way to hand rip? *LINK*

David Miller from Iowa

>I won't weigh in on the inches per stroke debate, probably because of my "saw envy". A couple points though, 1 - consider sharpening the saw yourself, it has about the same learning curve as doing a plane cutter (see link). 2 - body mechanics are critical - Jonathan Peck posted a cool picture of a ripping jig lately - it's on my list to make soon. http://wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=705


Bob Brode

My saw

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>Wolfgang,

I generally rip two handed (on horses not overhand) using a 28� Disston No.7 built between 1890-1910 or so. Rake and pitch varies up the salmon bellied blade from 4 points, 0 rake to 7 or 8 points, 20-30 degrees rake. Blade thickness is standard for this pitch and model (approx .045� at the heel). This was a bottom of the line saw, but I adore it.

=================================================

I had been sawing as well as I ever have; very quickly dispensing with 8� long pieces of 4/4 Eastern white pine. My saw was erasing the pencil line as if the line alone guided the saw; beckoning the saw teeth to itself.

Working fevorishly in my wooded, mosquito infested, backyard, I dropped this precious saw while repositioning a saw horse and cracked the lower horn. I was so despondant I almost cried. I had to take a moment to gather myself! Not the rage one usually feels having made such a stupid mistake, but an overwhelming sadness. The crack wasn�t through and I glued it sucessfully, but I was unable to regain my former pace and accuracy.

Adam

Re: Zen Master Mike!

Darrell in Oakville

>and the Master said:

Split rather than hew

hew rather than shave

shave rather than plane

plane rather than scrape

scrape rather then sand

The quicker you get your stock close to size then better. The best way is to use the stock you have without changing the width or thickness. That's one reason I don't generally follow plans. I can fit things together with both less effort and less waste if I let the stock dictate the dimensions of the work. It helps to have a lot of wood to choose from too ;^)

Darrell

Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User

With a name like Moses...

Adam Cherubini, NJ

>How can you possibly disagree with a guy whose name is Moses! "No Moses! You're wrong Moses!" Something just doesn't sit right with that!

I just did a quick test to make sure I was telling you the truth. These are the lengths of cut for a single saw stroke, work held vertically:

4/4 pine, surfaced to 3/4" 2-7/8"

4/4 maple, surfaced to 3/4" 1-1/2"

4/4 ash, rough (7/8") 3/8 -1/2" ( I didn't want to push too hard for fear of breaking a saw tooth)

I think hardwood performance would improve if I touched up the teeth. Also, I'd prefer a few degrees of rake if I was sawing ash (I don't).

Let's say this loud and clear: My point was that sawing, while tough, isn't wholly impractical when done judiciously. I included numbers to give folks a sense, not a target.

Caveats:

1) I view the numbers above (almost 3"/stroke through pine?) as a parlor trick and not typical of workaday sawing. When sawing at the horse, the saw sees an additional thickness due to the angle the saw makes with the board. That, combined with the need for line splitting accuracy, and I think its reasonable to halve my numbers to get a sense for day to day performance.

2) I am a pretty big galoot (6'6", 240lbs) and while I don't think of myself as either big or particularly strong it may be that my geometry allows me to push a long saw with good power throughout the stroke. I was a rower in college and the motions are not wholly dissimilar.

That said, I suspect others will be able to achieve similar results. If they can't, my freakish size or really great saw may explain the difference.

Oh, and far as evidence goes, I would never dare lie to a guy named Moses! "Idol? er uh..what idol? I don't see any idols."

Adam

Re: Best/Quickest way to hand rip?

Joel Oswald

>I like the idea of the frame saw, could i use my old hand saw (I would sharpen it of course) to make a frame saw? Or is it too thick? Would a bandsaw blade be better?

Thanks for all the input.

Joel

The Dharma

mike recchione

>The funny thing is, you don't have to read this in a book to learn it. If you work exclusively with hand tools for a while, it just makes intuitive sense. BTW, Darrell - did you make this up or read it somewhere? Either way, it deserves remembering.

Re: a Mose by any other name

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>It's just a name; it really is what was written on my birth certificate when I arrived on this round ball of dirt, named after both an uncle on my mom's side and an uncle on my dad's side. I have sawed some, but haven't done hand sawing on a regular basis, as I have an apprentice doing that for me. I think perhaps I will build a nice set of sawhorses this winter and sell my apprentice.

Mose?

Bob Hackett

>You mean you`re twins?

MB

Re: Moses Supposes his Toeses are Roses

Patrick Gibbons

>