720, 750, & Everlastng chisels & New Bailey Planes

Re: 720, 750, & Everlastng chisels & New Bailey Pl

Ted Shuck

>Stanley 750 chisels are "butt chisels", designed as a relatively short chisel for precise work. The 720's are longer, more of a paring chisel, but you will find 720's that have been ground down to the same length as a 750 (or shorter). They will have a thicker blade than the 750 at this short length. Both the 720 and 750 are socket chisels with a wooden handle that fits into a socket receiver at the butt end of the blade.

The Everlast chisels are a much heavier design with a steel shaft that runs through the center of the wooden (or plastic) handle to a steel striking cap. I don't like these as well for tasks like dovetailing since the handle is so heavy. They are very nice strong chisels for general work though and generally command a premium price in the marketplace.

Ted

Re: 720, 750, & Everlastng chisels & New Bailey Pl

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>New Stanley planes are dawgmeat. There is not much chance it will work right as it comes from the factory, due to severe degradation of quality control, unless all you want to use it for is rough carpentry. If you want to learn how to fettle a new plane so it will work well enough to build furniture, you may as well start with an Anant. The steel in the new Stanley blade will bring you to tears when you finally get the plane to actually hold the blade where it is supposed to be to cut, and you discover you spend more time resharpening it than making shavings. So, you will need to spend quite a bit more on a replacement blade, and most of your "savings" will have gone right out the window. If you want to save time=money in a bench plane, get an old Type 10 through Type 16 Bailey, or a Millers Falls from the same era, in good condition with a lot of steel left in the cutter, or a new Lee-Valley.

Re: 720, 750, & Everlastng chisels & New Bailey Pl

dave caudill

>I agree with what both William and Ted have to say about the chisels and planes. Don't mess with the new stuff you will very likely regret it. AS far as the chisels go you will find if you do your homework there are a lot of all of these Stanley chisels out there at a reasonable price. The Everlasting chisels are commanding pretty high prices so be aware. On the other hand the quality is quite good. Is there any reason why you want Stanley chisels specifically? There are many others out there such as Witherby, P.S.& W. (Peck Stowe and Wilcox or PEXTO)Swan, Barton L.& I. J. White, etc, etc. I have a fondness for the Witherby and P.S.& W. chisels and use them a lot. The quality is great and they are pretty easy to find in the wild or on the internet. Lately I have been chasing Stanley chisels and have a growing collection. I have found them to be fairly easy to come by although the prices are all over the place. Its all a matter of what you want to pay. The new Lie-Nielsen chisels are a copy of the 750's and are quite nice.

Dave

Re: 720, 750, & Everlastng chisels & New Bailey Pl

david coburn

>Dave,

Thanks for the response. I am very new to handtools and the reason that I am looking at the Stanley chisels is basically I've seen that the 750's are highly regarded. Even to the point of not only being included but actually winning a recent magazine test. I don't have the magazines with me but it was either FWW or PW or Wood... Also, I've read that many users like the 750's alot... Not to mention, like you said, the new LNs are copies of them, that in itself says alot. If I had lots of money I would get the LNs but I don't have lots of money.

Honestly, I'm pretty ignorant about these issues and the chisels that you list may be as good or even better.. So I'm very open to being told that is the case...

I'm open to your comments on these chisels or any others that you think are very good. Especially if they are as good but less expensive.

thanks,

david

Buy a new plane

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>to loan out to your neighbor, brother-in-law, or who ever comes a' callin' and borrowin'. they'll get so aggravated with it that they'll never ask to borrow your tools again, at least not your planes. Probably a good idea to keep a cheap set of chisels handy for the same reason.

I made it VERY clear to the Mrs. That absolutly nothing gets loaned out without my permission. So far, as far as I know that rule hasen't been broken.

Sounds like your gathering lots of info and tools. hows your sharpening skills? That's a biggie to know. You can use the cheap chisels and plane irons to practice on.

Todd O.

Re: Buy a new plane

david coburn

>Hi Todd,

I've been practicing my "scary sharp" skills over the past few weeks. I have a couple of chisels and one old #6 plane iron that are very sharp. Mirror finish on all of them. I do have two questions though..

1) I initially got some spray adhesive and tried to stick my wet/dry sandpaper down to the glass but it would not stick.. so I have been just laying the sandpaper onto the glass and holding the paper at the back while holding the honing jig with the other hand. I obviously have the wrong type of spray adhesive or something.. Any thoughts or recommendations?

2) I have thought about this second thing a lot and still have not come up with a good answer. After sharpening a blade and then using it for a while it becomes dull again and you want to re-sharpen it. How do you get the exact same angle in the honing jig again such that you don't have to re-flatten the blade with regard to the jig angle again? I don't know if this is very clear but basically when I need to re-sharpen it seems that I should only have to resharpen the very edge, the majority of the "sharp" part still has a mirror sharp finish.. How do you keep from having to resharpen the entire blade every time? It took a long time to go from 80 to 2000 grit sandpaper.

thanks,

david

Re: Buy a new plane

David Linnabary

>I'll take a crack at 2 and 3.

2. I use 3M 77 aerosol (sparingly) which works great but I usually leave several different grits glued up on the same piece of marble so they are tough to get off after they've been on there a while, i.e. scraping and mineral spirits to clean up the mess. A number of people I've talked to just wet the surface and it seems to hold the paper adequately for them, I've not tried it.

3. The easy answer is to sharpen often so there's not a lot of material to remove combined with learning to free hand sharpen. Use a jig for more agressive bevel work, you'll develope a feel for when the jig is holding the bevel flat to the stone. Ocassionally I'll black the bevel with a magic marker to show where the bevel is touching the abrasive to help me get the tool lined up in the jig properly.

Re: Buy a new plane

Jonathan Peck - N.Y.

>Glues not sticking - Try water. Water + glass + paper backed sandpaper = sticktion

Sharpening - Just keep practicing. Sharpen the best you can and go back to work. Maintaining an edge on your tools will become habbit after awhile. Believe me, unless your me, you'll only screw up a few times.

Not Todd, but...

Tim of San Leandro

>"How do you get the exact same angle in the honing jig again such that you don't have to re-flatten the blade with regard to the jig angle again?"

I've got the Veritas jig and have tried the less expensive ones as well. I could not get them set to the same angle again. My microbevel shortly became a macrobevel....hence I've since been learning (learning because I'm not exactly great at it) to hand hold my cutting tools while sharpening. More difficult in some aspects but easier in others. I think I've crossed the threshold where now I believe I'll get skilled enough at freehand sharpening to do it very quickly and very well at the same time. The honing jig will remain with me for times when I'd like to change the bevel angle.

Tim

Re: Not Todd, but...

david coburn

>You guys are great. Thanks for all the good information. I'll keep after it...

thanks again,

david

Re: Buy a new plane

Skip in Falls Church

>I use a light spray of repositionable stencil adhesive. It will stick the paper down but you can lift it and reposition it a few times. I think it leaves less residue on the glass than regular spray adhesive as well. You can find it at craft stores. Get the can of spray stuff, not the bottle of liquid. :)

Skip

Re: Buy a new plane

R.J.Whelan

>David ...

#2 ... once you have the iron, or chisel in the jig and have established the bevel you want, make a "setting jig" by taking a small piece of plywood with a good edge; hold the edge of the wheel jig against the fresh edge of the plywood with the iron laying flat on the surface of the plywood; now glue and screw a piece of hardwood against the edge of the iron and another piece along it's length (exactly 90 degrees). Label the setting jig (ie: plane iron - 25 degrees; or, chisel - 30 degrees). You can make several different setting angles on one 6" x 6" piece of plywood. When you want to set your wheel guage just lay the iron into the 90 degree cradle and slide jig against the edge of the plywood and tighten the hold down.

I don't use micro bevels but a rough rule of thumb is reduce the iron projection by about 1/4" from the main bevel projection to establish a 2-3 degree micro bevel - you can add this to your setting jig or just slip a 1/4" spacer between the end stop and the edge of the iron.

Hopefully I explained this clearly enough for you to get a mental image of the jig.]

Good luck ... rj

PS - hand holding is a worthwhile skill; I can touch up a chisel or iron about 50-60 times before I have to break out the wheel jig to reestablish an accurate bevel.

Re: Not Todd, but...

kees

>the Taunton video "Sandpapersharpening" with Michael Dunbar.

Re: Buy a new plane

Tony Z.

>Be careful with the "handholding" of the SC paper. It can "roll up" if you push your blade or chisel into the paper, leaving a slightly "dubbed" over edge. Also, a mirror polish does not necessarily indicate a razor edge.

Re: Buy a new plane

david coburn

>Tony,

Thanks.

I was a little surprised by your statement "a mirror polish does not neccesarily mean a razor edge". Not meaning to sound smart but how would I tell other than that (it easily shaves hair off my arm but I'm sure that's not a big deal). Also, how would you suggest that I achieve a better edge? I have been going to 2000 and realize that some go much higher to say 6000 grit..

How high in the sandpaper grits do you go?

again, thank you,

david

Re: Buy a new plane

Tony Z.

>I go to 2500 grit, and then final polish with DuPont Perfectit III (autobody final rub-out compound--see your local parts store such as a NAPA).

I also affix the SC to a surface plate using 3M #77.

When I spoke about the "dubbing" or "rounding over", I was speaking from experience! I was trying for a mirror polish, which I got very readily, but in the pursuit of it, I found that the edges weren't necessarily that sharp. While examining my methods, I noticed when using "scary sharp", that when pushing into the paper, some grit/residue would track ahead of the blade.

To answer your question as to how can you tell how sharp something is something I can't really do! I basically try to compare my sharpening against past practices--what works, what subjectively feels better, and try to replicate the method. However, with that said, I did find that handholding the SC paper was not quite as good as securing it, be it with #77, WD-40 or water.

Tony, thank you... david

david coburn

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