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cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

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cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

#1

cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

Jonathan Ronnow, Sweden

>Just read this article somewhere about cryogenical treatment of steels, to transform remaining austenite to martensite. Leonard Lee also mentions cryo in the complete sharpening guide. Below is a quote from the article Ive linked to:

*snip*

The fine ETA carbide particles, called precipitates, are formed during the long cryogenic soak. These are in addition to the larger carbide particles that are present before the start of the cryogenic treatment. It is these fine particles, called fillers, that along with the larger particles, form a denser more coherent and importantly tougher matrix in the material. Since the surface energy of the martensite is higher than that of the austenite, due to the differences in their atomic structures, you then have a potential wear situation. The martensite is less likely to tear out from the parent material than is the austenite. Cryogenic treatment conclusively reduces the wear on materials. *snip*

Ok... thats sounds good. If one assumes that the heat treatment left some austenite in my chisels, then freezing those will make them last longer by converting austenite to martensite. How much improved they will be depends on how much austenite they had and how good the cryo-treater is.

Lie-Nielsen cryotreats his blades, *snip* our research convinces us that Cryogenically treated A-2 will hold an edge significantly longer if properly done *snip*

So. Has anyone tried, or is anyone interested in trying, to cryo-treat their chisels, planer/jointer knives, hand plane blades etc?

I wonder how for example my Iyoroi chisels would respond, being carbon steel very hard. Or how my planer knives would respond, being hss.

I think one of the mags sent out a batch of tools to be treated promising to get back on their performance. Anyone know how they are doing?

I realise that some of these articles about cryo treatments beneficial effects probably should be taken with a grain or two of salt, but it would be interesting and possibly beneficial to have a hands on test with a cryo contra non-cryo tool.

I dont know who treats, but that could be found out of. Myself, Im not so frequent a user of my tools that Id be able to make useful comparisons over a reasonable time, but Id be willing to contribute to such a test since it may be benificial. After all, if they can be reasonably improved without requiring too much fuss, time or money, it would be worth it for me. I have no idea about costs however, Im just throwing this idea out. Your input in whatever form is much welcome!

Jr


I�ll have mine on ice

Re: cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

#2

Re: cryo treating - worth it? article! *LINK*

Jonathan Ronnow, Sweden

>Found the article I read the other day. One thing I overlooked is that the tools have to be retempered after freezing... still thinks its interesting, though.


cryo reading

Re: cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

#3

Re: cryo treating - worth it? Long

joel

>It is my understanding that Cryo treatment simply speeds up the transformation, the transformation happens anyway over time. The reason manufacterers do it is because they want to ship a fully finished blade at once, not have to wait 6 months.

I don't know enough about metalurgy to know if this is the case but I do know that an A2 iron I have that was not cryo treated started at when new as just an okay bit-o-steel. About 6 months or so later I started thinking that this particular iron was the best iron I had seen in ages. I don't know if thats because I sharpen it differently (I don't think I am) but it certainly ties in with the steel changing for the better over time.

Re: cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

#4

Waiting for the data

jim_reed@marietta

>I used to work in a cryo lab and know that extreme cold can cause permanent changes to many materials. As for cryo steel, I am waiting for the data. Just because it works in the lab does not mean that it works in production. Even if it does work, I think other factors (type of steel) have more influence on the suitability of the tool.

Re: cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

#5

what Crucible metallurgist said

Bill Tindall, E. TN

>I asked this question of a metalurgist at Crucible Steel. He had worked in research lab and studied this process. He said:

Cryo treating can fix imperfect heat treating. There are some steels that are easy to heat treat and these are likely not improved by this treatment. CPM 3V was an example given. Others like A2 are easier to not heat treat perfectly and they may be improved. I think if it provided a consistent measurable improvement there would not be so much discussion about whether it was worth doing.

Paul Bos in CA will do it for you as part of his heat treating process if someone wants to experiment with it.

Re: cryo treating - worth it? Long *LINK*

#6

Re: what Crucible metallurgist said

Charles

>It seems that cry-treating is a lot more involved than going to your local dairy and asking them to hang you plane blade on a coat hanger and dip it in the tank of liquid nitrogen that they store their bull semen in. Too bad.

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