2nd dovetail effort

Not too shabby!

Joe Hurst

>Craig-

You're more than halfway there...might I suggest planing the outside faces just a hair? A few passes with a sharp plane might be all you need to clean up most of the chip out.

Another way to reduce/eliminate chipout is to use a marking gauge to establish the depth of the pins and tails. I made my gauge has a tip made from a sharpened finish nail. It seems to do a decent job of severing surface fibers...and adds a nice "must have been made by hand" detail to the finished joint.

Of course, when in doubt, sharpen some more. If you're not chiseling out the waste, you can get away with a lower bevel (25 degrees or less) and use it exclusively for paring.

Good luck,

Joe

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

GolfSteve in Calgary

>The one thing that I notice is that you marked your baseline using a pencil. I think that you should use a marking knife for three reasons:

1. The knifed line will give a nice crisp appearance, avoiding the chip out that you experienced.

2. When chiselling out the waste, you can set the bevel of your chisel into the knife line, improving your chiselling accuracy.

3. A knifed line has very little thickness, and the thickness of the line is consistent. A pencil line is rather imprecise, changes width depending on how sharp the pencil is, and smudges with handling.

Overall your 2nd dovetail attempt does not look all that bad. I would glue it up (which tends to improve the appearance), then practice repairing your mistakes - glue end grain pieces into any gaps.

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Mark Kuzee

>It sure looks better than my second try. I did save the first for reference just to make myself feel better. For looks sake make your half-pins (the ones on the outside of the board) about half the size of the normal pins. It will make the tails bigger though. Because the tails and pins are opposite images of each other you will need to remove the same amount of material regardless what size your pins/tails are. Also when you scribe the base line for the tails/pins make it ever so slightly wider than the board thickness. Your pins/tails will protrude slightly at that point and they will be easy to knock down with a block plane. The act of chiseling the base line will wedge the line slightly depending on the type wood and size of chisel you use. Get a good marking gauge and sharpen it up and learn how to use it. And use a knife to markout..highlight with a pencil. And have fun.

Mark

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Craig,

There's a lot to like here. You appear to have hit both baselines right on the money, so that after glueup there would be no daylight at either baseline. This is very good. The fact that the tails board is a little proud just tells me that you have maintained your reference lines for drawer width. After you've planed 1/32" off of some drawer sides, you'll get real good at hitting it more exactly, but for right now the error is in the right direction, compared to having a drawer that's loose in the enclosure.

Someone mentioned setting the gauge right off the board you're going to fit, and that's the way to go.

That little chipout on the back side of the pins board at the baseline could be planed off without much consequence; however, this can be avoided by making sure that as you pare the baseline, keep moving the backing board so that you are placing solid wood underneath where the chisel will exit the cut. In other words, if the chisel exits the cut into air rather than wood, you're at risk of that type of chip.

But again, there's a lot to like about that joint.

Wiley

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Sandor in Boyds, MD

>Its pretty satisfying when it all comes together and clicks, no?

My suggestions are:

Design. Make the pins much smaller and the tails larger, otherwise it will look too much like machine cut dovetails. Take a look at older furniture for some pleasing ratios, but don't make the pins narrower than your narrowest paring chisel.

Execution. Looks like you got chip out when removing the waste with the coping saw. Here's a trick. If you mark both sides of the board and flip it around when removing the waste, any chipout will be on the inside of the joint and will be hidden from view. Same can be said for sawing the sides of the tails and pins. Make sure that the cutting direction cuts toward the inside of the drawer.

Great job otherwise and welcome to the club!

Sandor

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Ernie Miller Topeka

>They look better than the last ones I did over the weekend. if you look at anteek furnature the dove tails are nit perfect like every one strives for today. I would say good enough and start amking drawers.

This Was Your SECOND Try?

Howard Toronto Man

>Craig - these are great. Super close. Only upwards to go from here. Congrats. Howard

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Jim in Burlington Ontario

>Yeah second try eh? Keep going it doesn't get much better than that. A little planeing to clean the faces up and that will look perfect.

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Jack from Maine

>Craig, I ought to put my $.02 in here too. I've been doing dovetails on anything I can think of for months now,ever since I learned how.Did some in pine,cherry,poplar,walnut and even made a very difficult pair in purpleheart and mine still aren't as tight as your second try.

You have it.Run with it.I'm with Ernie on this. Dovetails are a joint.Period.As long as they work.However,when I do the dovetails on LOML's blanket chest I gotta try real hard to get them tight.---Jack

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

paul womack

>This should also stop the chipout.

Marking/Cutting the base of the waste deeply, either with a cutting gauge or marking knife on a square will both provide a good start to the joint, and greatly reduce splitting.

BugBear

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

paul womack

>2. When chiselling out the waste, you can set the bevel of your chisel into the knife line, improving your chiselling accuracy.

I don't understand. When chopping a mortise eveybody (pretty much) agress that you cannot put your chisel on the line since the bevel will force the chisel back, thus leaving the resulting cut outside your mark.

You only put your chisel on (or in) the mark for the final, fine cut.

Why doens't this (reasonable) advice apply to chiselling dovetails?

BugBear

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

GolfSteve in Calgary

>I agree that I didn't give enough info there.

First you chop out most of the waste, except for the final sliver. Then you put your chisel into the marked line and pare away the last bit of waste exactly to the line.

Thanks.

Craig

>I swear this was my second try at dovetails. Until recently I was a power tool guy. Then, 9 months ago, I got an old stanley 91/2 block plane and I started sliding, apparently. Now I have 4 bench planes, started jointing boards by hand (I only have a workmate for the moment, but now wanna build a small bench) and decided I like the hand stuff much more than feeling like i have to get a project finished as fast as possible (though I have since used my biscuit joiner...)

There is also something about using an old plane, that has its own history and putting that to work in making something new. I feel it adds a quality to my work that I havent felt with power tools yet. So then i fell off the cliff and decided to go whole hog and do dovetails too. THough i was under the impression that they are terribly difficult, and only my router can do a decent job! Thank god I got some hand planes so that I realized I can do this stuff! Just a bit of practice and patience...

I had practiced cutting straight lines to a given mark as told in the Ian Kirby book... first with a cheap offset saw (a supposed dovetail saw that I actually hated. Had a mind of its own.) and then I thought that I might have better luck with a more average priced japanese back saw. Cutting straight lines has never been so easy... I have no idea what a Lie-Nielsen cuts like, and only have a bad saw to compare with, but i like my Veritas saw.

Well, I am still cheap and haven't bust out and bought a cutting gauge yet so thats why my lines are from a mechanical pencil, (and I only have cheap marples chisels .. though I have no experience of anything better and do not know what I am missing, they seem to keep sharp with the sand paper method)

So now I want to make a small box with dovetails... and since they are going to be seen they need to look good, and I cannot imagine my skills rapidly increasing over what I have shown here... but the right technique counts alot, so thanks for your advice on the marking, layout (I do prefer the thinner pins, these were just randomly put on the end of a board so i could do a couple of them) and chopping.

As with everything, It takes me a month to get anything done with job and family, and it seems that making something small takes just about as much effort as making something big. Maybe one more practice..... and Ill feel ready, or realize I had beginners luck! Either way, thanks!

Pin and Tail Length

Robert Weber

>As an alternate to making the pins and tails a little proud and trimming the excess with a block plane - a procedure that makes a lot of sense on the face - Ian Kirby argues for shy tails and pins and I think he makes a good point.

What Mr. Kirby promotes is (especially for drawer making) cutting the boards to exactly the length that you want, say 18" exactly. Then you mark the dovetails a little shy. When the joint is together, you plane the sides of the drawer. This has two effects - first, you know when the drawer is exactly as wide and you are looking for; second, you clean the sides up of marks and dings quite nicely.

My dovetails have not progressed to the drawer making stage yet (new babies cut severely into shop time), but when I'm ready, I think I'm going to try that route.

Rob in Peoria

www.geocities.com/robntweber

Re: chop then pare - got it.

paul womack

>

Re: 2nd dovetail effort

Angelo in Cornwall, NY

>These look great Craig. Been messing with DT's for about 6 months on and off, and none look that good.