Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Re: Shoulder planes *LINK*

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>The small LN shoulder plane is a specialty plane of a traditional style with limited capabilities, due to its narrow width and slight mass, and only manual adjustments. Another significant drawback, IMHO, is its non-adjustable mouth.

The L-V medium shoulder plane, OTOH, is a technical and ergonomic tour de force. For only $20 more than the bare-bones L-N, you get a very capable, comfortable, easy to use plane. The only thing missing is the traditional look, which is only an artistic argument, and not applicable to a tool you are planning to use. Save the artistic for the woodwork you will do with the plane.

Here is an excellent review by Lyn Mangimeli on the L-V medium shoulder plane.

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Andrew Bacchi - Vermont

>A bunch of us have been talking about the upcoming LV small shoulder plane, on another forum. Rob Lee has said the new model will be out around May-June. With a large version out later this year. That gives Lee Valley three models of shoulder/rabbet planes.

Now you have a chance to slip further down the slope.

I sense....

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>.... two more future additions to my growing shoulder plane collection.

*sigh*

In a seperate post I'll talk about the Small LN vs. the LV shoulder plane.

:)

And,

Clay C in Miami

>As to Pam, I saw a 'this is my last WC post' from Pam a while back, buried at the end of a long thread.

I got the sense there was some Pam-subtext on the board, preceding my arrival, and far too subtle for my comprehension. The 'Jack Pine' business, etc.

Clay

Just got mine...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>...a few weeks ago. The Lee Valley, that is. It's a beautiful piece of work (Doh! - there it is!). I haven't trimmed shoulders yet, but have used it to fettle dadoes, arguably a secondary (or lower) use for this plane. It's a great tool, though - required minimal setup, feels like an extension of my hand, just nifty in general.

Pam retired from WC again, though she might catch word of this query and reply. Might could email her, or just wait - there are others here with the LN.

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>The LN small shoulder plane is very nice. However, as previously mentioned, it is small and limited. OTOH the LV medium shoulder plane is also well-made and very versatile.

If I were you I would start out with the LV plane. You won't regret it and if you find that you need a smaller plane, you can always get the LN small shoulder plane at a later date.

I can't speak much on the 60 1/2R vs. the 140. I do have a 60 1/2R and it's a nice plane.

just my 2 cents

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

chad pearson

>I have the LN small shoulder plane and love it. It is one of my favorite planes acqured during a long slide down a slippery slope. It's great for clean up work on joinery.

As other posters have said it doesn't have a blade adjuster or an adjustable mouth. Me personally I have no problem not having an adjuster as I find adjusting with a hammer just as easy. Similarly, the adjustable mouth hasn't been an issue as it is set very fine (I suppose if I was creating a rabbet from scratch running with the grain I would want a wide mouth so I could take a bigger bite...but then that's not what the plane was made for). For the things I do with it I find it to be a fantastic piece of equipment.

Also...the plane is beautiful to look at. It almost seems too nice to use sometimes.

Having said the foregoing I think it has limited utility in that it is quite small. If you want a more general purpose shoulder plane the LV might be a better fit. If you just want a small plane for cleaning up small items then I'd suggest the LN (as long as you don't mind manual adjustments).

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I agree, Chad. I've got the LN small and large shoulder planes and an HNT 3/4" shoulder, which I hardly ever use. Both LN's get used a lot.

I like the looks of the LV, but have no need for it right now.

Pam

LN140

Wiley Horne--Glendora CA

>Hi Lloyd,

Just a note on the LN140. I always keep this plane set up as a moving filletster, with the fence on, and the side removed. It's very valuable just for that purpose. So I value this plane highly, but do not use it as a traditional block plane. I think it would be a good complement to the medium shoulder you have in mind, as well as your current LN102. If you do decide to buy the LN140, be sure and read the prior thread about right handers preferring the left handed plane.

Wiley

HNT Gordon

chad pearson

>Yea, I hear you on the HNT Gordon. I've got a 1.25" snakewood version. I've used it for a few things but quite frankly it is too nice to risk dinging up all the time.... not to mention the fact that its bedded at 60%.

Re: HNT Gordon

Benjamin Meyer

>Why is the HNT bedded at 60 degrees? I've always wondered how a shoulder plane could work well at that high angle.

I don't know either...

chad pearson

>That was my point about the bedding angle. Most of the things I do with a shoulder plane are best served with a low angle. Having said that the times I have used the HNT I have had very good results.

I mostly don't use the plane because I don't want to ding it up (I think I bought it more because I liked its looks -the slippery slope had a period that became exceptionally steep for me).

60 degree bedding angle

Andrew F in Australia

>Probably telling you something you know here.

Slicing motion = blade at 5 degrees

Effective blade angle of a low angle plane is 12 plus 25 degrees = 40 degrees

Standard Bailey planes are bedded at 45 degrees.

Middle pitch was 47.5 degrees

York pitch is 50 degrees

HNT Gordon and some old moulding planes are at 60 degrees

Scraping angle = 85 degrees plus

The pitch determines the amount of tearout you produce in difficult timbers (along with other things such as how sharp the blade is and how rank a set you have on the plane).

so, assuming that the blade is sharp and set fine, the HNT gordon planes produce minimal tearout. I find that a slicing motion doesn't work on our timbers, as they tend to raise large splinters/split along the grain when pared.

As most shoulders are hidden, this may not be something you'd consider important. But to clean up a rebate, it may be an advantage.

The disadvantage is that it takes a lot more effort to push.

No barrow to push, although I do know the plane maker and have three of his planes, two of which I use regularly.

Cheers,

Andrew

Can't add up can I? 25 plus 12 = 37

Andrew F in Australia

>but as planes blades are usually sharpened at 27-28 degrees, the effective angle may be closer to 40 degrees.

Cheers,

Andrew

I Agree...I love his planes

chad pearson

>The trouble is that the shoulder plane is more of a collectable than anything. As I mentioned before every time I've used it the result has been just fine. I'm just sentimental about it and don't bang it around too much.

The HNT smoother and palm smoother I have does get used and I couldn't be happier.

Re: And,

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>Yes she seemed to push buttons either inadvertantly or on purpose. She left Badger Pond on less than happy circumstances. I suspect there was an issue dealt with off forum that she had objections with. I think she didn't deal well with moderators requests to modify postings content but I may be off base here. Just musings.JR

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>I must have been _way_ mistaken in my interpretations of your previous post ,Pam. I should have read this thread in toto before I added obviously incorrect and misleading conjecture. My apologies.

Welcome back.JR

Re: And,

Jack from Maine

>I think she will be back. And welcome.My guess is she just needed some time off.---Jack

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Jim in Burlington

>I had about 130 sqft of hardwod flooring to put down a couple weekends ago and it's been stored in the basement for a year. The tungs had swollen on all of it so I used the shoulder plane to trim it all down 3 light passes of the bottom of the tung what a nice fit in your hand seems to be less effotless than the squeezing required for other ones I have used and I didn't have to sharpen it at all.

Re: And,

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Don't know about that. My hope is that she will continue to participate and share her extensive knowledge of woodworking. We are all individuals and none of us perfect (look at yourself neked and sidewise in a mirror) but this site seems to offer ample elbow room for each of us ;>)!!

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Frank Mutchler in Colorado Springs

>Good on ya, mate ;>)!!

You're forgetting the bevel

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

>HNT Gordon shoulder planes, like their other planes, are bedded at 60 degrees with a 30 degree bevel. BUT they are bevel DOWN. Consequently, their effective cutting angle is closer to other shoulder planes than one might at first otherwise think. Most shoulder planes have their bevel UP (e.g. 20 degree bedded angle plus 25 degree bevel = 45 degrees effective cutting angle).

I think the rationale behind the high blade angle on the HNT Gordon shoulder plane is that it (with the remainder of its stable) is designed for Australian hardwoods, which are known for their tricky grain. Personally, I'm not sure it this still applies when cutting end grain.

We should ask Steve Knight to comment since his shoulder planes come with a 45 or 60 degree option.

In practice the HNT Gordon cuts extremely well (I have the 3/4" ironwood. My other shoulder plane is a well-tuned older model Stanley #93, and the HNT Gordon slices Jarrah more easily than this), and one magazine review I have rated it equivalent to the LN and Clifton shoulder planes in terms of cutting = but far more comfortable to use than the others.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

Lloyd Robins

>As usual a lot of help and great information. Thank you for your help! It looks like an LV shoulder plane for certain. The LN 140 looks like a good deal. I am a lefty, so the std unit looks to be the one wanted.

Re: Small LN shoulder plane (Pam and others)

todd stock

>Agree with Pam that both LNs are a nice combo, but if I could do only one, I'd look at something larger than the small LN. Without any shoulder plane, I'd be tempted to do the LN 073 or (if $$ limited) the LV, although the heft of the larger tool is something that I like.