hollow and round planes

Re: hollow and round planes

Tom in Tipp

>Jane,

What class are you taking that requires those tools? Sounds like it could be very interesting.

You can still buy new H&R planes but I think they would be rather expensive.

If there isn't a tool dealer close by (or an antique mall?) you could go to ebay. Make sure the tool hasn't been abused and the throat isn't opened too much. Check the wedge as well to see that it isn't damaged. You will need to learn to sharpen older planes. I have yet to pick one up that has been sharpened correctly. These planes are adjusted with a tap of a mallet...some folks get a bit over-zealous and beat the tar out of them. You'll want to avoid those examples.

If there is a historical society near you, check there. That is were I started out with handtools. Those folks have an interest and the enthusiasm to share. In my experience, a lot of the gentlemen there are tool collectors as well.

Good luck to you.

Tom

Re: hollow and round planes

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>These planes are still produced, but in very small quantities by a very few skilled, traditional craftsmen. For example, the best are probably Clark and Williams, but theirs are expensive, and they will probably have a long lead time.

You'd probably be better off finding some old ones. When I bought my half set, I went to Tony Murland, who is very reputable. Tell him what you want, and he will send you some very functional planes, not something that is rare or of museum quality, just good users, at a fair price.

I bought mine from England because I wanted planes created for the cabinetmaker, with a York pitch (high angle cutter). I did not want a low 40� or 45� cutting angle, which you find in most of the U.S. molding planes, which were mostly optimized for the finish carpenter, who worked mostly in straight-grained softwoods.

If you want to hunt old ones, in the wild, you need to look for cutters that are not pitted on the back, and planes that are not cracked or split out the sides, and that are straight, without twist or warp. Make sure the mouth is tight, and there is no damage to the front of the mouth. You might find some minor end checking, but that is not important to functionality. Also, make sure that the wedge fits, and holds the cutter firmly. Also, verify that the profile of the blade matches the profile of the plane sole.

Re: hollow and round planes

glh

>You can usually find hollows and rounds on ebay, but not sure of the condition. Japan Woodworker sells a half-set of hollow and rounds at what sounds like a low price. They are made in Taiwan or somewhere like that and I'm not sure of their quality. I think there is 18 in the set (9 hollows and 9 rounds). I'm pretty sure you can buy the individually matched hollows and rounds also. That does sound like a fun class.

I have a video on making hollows and rounds but never tried it. One caution about buying these on ebay. There isn't much consistency across manufacturers in the numbering system. So a #5 hollow by one manufacture or craftsman isn't likely to be an exact match for a #5 round of another.

Also, Clark and Williams sells sets, but I'm not sure if you can by individual combinations. These sets are very high quality, I'm sure, but they are also pretty expensive.

Japan Woodworker

glh

>The website for Japan Woodworker is www.japanwoodworker.com. I found my catalog and the planes are on p. 100 of the fall-winter 2004 catalog. They aren't number as #5, #6, etc..., their width is measured in inches. You can buy the individual matches and prices run from $25.75 for a 1/4" (smallest) set of h and r's to $43.65 for a 1 1/4" set (largest). The entire set sells for $243.00 and they are made from rosewood and made in Hong Kong.

You mean these?  *LINK*

Christopher Fitch @ Memphis

>


http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=11844

Yes, Thanks

glh

>

Bench throated H&R planes. Interesting!

Mark Harrison -- in Sydney, Australia

>

Re: hollow and round planes

Scott Post

>Is this class completely focused on building something or does the schedule also call for spending some time learning to tune/sharpen your tools? If the latter, this is a golden opportunity to learn what it takes to make an as found molding plane sing. I'd buy the H&R pairs (always buy as matched pairs - not singles) from a reputable dealer such as Tony Murland, Anthony Seo, or one of the many others that participate on the Oldtools mailing list. Tell them you're looking for users so you'll get matching pairs free of warp with the correct irons and wedges. E-mail Tony Murland or post a "WTB" on the Oldtools list and you should get some responses.

If you want planes that are ready to go you can have them made by Tod Herrli or Clark & Williams, although I'm not sure what their backlog is.

A Question

Todd Hughes

>I have heard and know that different makers planes are slightly different, even if the same size from others. In other words a no. 5 hollow made by Chapin might not be an exact match for say a no. 5 round made by DR Barton. I can see how as a collector you would want a set all from the same maker but what difference as a user does it make if the profiles are slightly different after all I don't think you would be doing work that has to fit together but instead doing decorative trim where if the hollows and rounds are slightly different it would not be noticiable.Imagine often you would use for example different size combinations of hollow and rounds anyway.....So what is the importance of a matched pair of planes?............Todd

Size matters--or does it?

jim_reed@marietta

>You are correct that a #5 H does not necessarily match a #5 R from a different mfg. You are also correct in that this is usually only a minor consideration. What matters is that you have a graduated set of each. That is why sets were sold as *half* sets. With a properly graduated set, you can make almost any moulding you need to. Perfectly matched full sets are required only for cabinetmakers who need to *exactly* match a measured drawing or period piece of furniture.

One answer

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi

>Todd,

While I can't track down the article where I read this(I think it was written by Larry Williams of Clark and Williams) the problem with a pair of hollows and rounds by different makers is that they might not be the same width due to inconsistancies in numbering system used by different manufacturers. From one maker the size might represent the width in sixteenths so a number 12 hollow would be 12/16" or 3/4" wide. Other numbering systems were used by other manufacturers, such as numbering the planes consecutively or starting a #2 plane being a 1/4" instead of 1/8".

In reality this still does not result in a major problem, but you could end up with two planes being exactly the same width with different numbers.

Jim

Re: One answer

Ernie Miller Topeka

>I have never heard of any one here being up set because they had two planes the same size around here. You can allways make the planes get Todd Hurleys video. I have one finished all except grinding the iorn. it only took a couple hours and was quite easy.

Re: A Question

Scott Post

>It's not always important. In fact, in the things I've made I'd say it's usually not important. The place where the difference becomes noticeable is where adjacent parts of a profile are made with the pair, for example, an ogee or reverse ogee. A mismatch there can really jump out at you. Also, if the hollow is a slightly smaller diameter than the round you can get a dig in the corner where the profile meet.

Re: hollow and round planes *LINK*

Larry Williams

>Jane,

If this is for an April class at Arrowmont and you can't find the planes, let me know. I can bring some for you to use.

One old tool dealer you can try is Sandy Moss who you can e-mail at sushandel@msn.com. Sandy knows wooden planes, has very reasonable prices and connects with a lot of other dealers. If he doesn't have some that will work, he probably knows who does. A list of some of his current tools is at the link below


Sandy's Tools

Re: hollow and round planes

Scott Post

>There was a spurious "." at the end of Sandy's web address. Here's a working version:

Sandy's website

Thanks Scott--it was a long day yesterday

Larry Williams

>

Re: A Question

Larry Williams

>Todd,

There are a lot of times that some uniformity between molding planes is important. Examples would include making rule joints with hollows and rounds or cleaning up a bead. Beading planes, because of their 180� profile, don't offer exactly ideal cutting geometry. In difficult grain, a properly sized hollow will give you a second chance at a clean molding. Uniformity between planes can make life a lot easier for those who actually use them.