When you joint a board that has a crook (will lay flat, but one edge is convex and the other concave), Which edge do you joint first? I joint (on a 6" long bed jointer) the concave edge first. Knock off the toe and the heal until I get to the middle. Sometimes I drag the heal over the knives more than once and sometimes I turn it end for end.
Today I saw (on YouTube) someone state you should start with the bulge down and near the middle and keep making passes until you take enough off to joint the full length. (We all know those guys on YouTube know the right way to do everything.)
I follow the YouTube process; it's faster to focus on just one spot and you're not pressing the bowed face flat just to have it pop up once you think you're done.
My approach is the same as yours Barry, and I concentrate on NOT applying any downward pressure so that I create a side whose resting state is flat. After making the other side parallel with the planer normally I sticker the pieces for a week to allow acclimatizing (sp?) to the changes. Often I've read the moisture content in lumber is seldom uniform - the middle may be higher or lower than the surfaces - and I often find a small amount of further warping during that week, calling for a second round of the same jointer then planer process.
I've been poo-pooed on this forum before for allowing a week and jointing and planing a second time, but to my knowledge I've not had shelves, tabletops, or panels show any warping later on. I don't mind the extra work and love the results.
It had not occurred to me I could flatten the arch in one of the pieces, Perhaps because I am usually straightening the edges of pieces that are fairly wide and strong. Or maybe I was being careful without realizing why.
I also do stock prep and let the pieces Acclimate or rest for a few days. Not so much as some sort of perfect plan but because I work at a glacial pace. I seldom work with kiln dried lumber, almost always use air dried stock and almost never take moisture meter readings.
One thing I generally do is cut pieces about four inches longer than necessary so I can cut away splits if necessary and cut away snipe.
Barry, I've read all the responses, as well as your original post. Call me thick headed but I'm not sure what you're asking. It looks like I'm the only one too. I can't determine if the question is about jointing the edge, which is how it sounds to me, or the face.
I never joint stock starting with the edge. I always start with flattening one face side, move to the planer for the other, then back to the jointer to straighten one edge before moving to the saw for the other edge. Perhaps it's this order I employ that has me confused about exactly what you're trying to do.
I can say I usually try to dimension stock when I'm ready to use it. However, those times I know it won't be used right away, I dead stack it on a flat surface and put some weight on top. Once I'm ready to use it I cut to finished size and assemble.
Could you help my vapor locked brain understand better what you're trying to do? Has the stock in question been face jointed and/or thicknessed and you're needing to joint the edge? Or you're starting with the edge first, which doesn't make sense to me. Help a confused man out!!!
If the curve is pronounced I do neither and prefer to clamp/tack/tape the stock to a known-straight piece and run it through the TS to remove one edge or the other -- it doesn't matter at that point. Then I am able to joint with confidence.
If you start on the convex side, the board will rock as you move it and you'll be forever chasing the high spot as it moves back and forth along that edge.
The only time I've seen this strategy work is when the high spot is only 1/16" or so and the jointer is set for a cut deeper than that. Then you knock down the high point with one pass.
David, the original post said the stock would lay flat and which edge do you start with?
I agree that I start by flattening a face. Then move to an edge.
I left out some of the logic, trying to shorten the question. Working with air dried lumber, some of it's been in a open barn for years, some piled in my driveway under tarps for years, I start by rummaging through the piles and picking the pieces. At this point I don't have much stuff below five inches wide. I move the pieces into a climate controlled room in my house, adjacent to my shop. My next step is to cut it to length, but about four inches too long if I have it.
The shortening of the pieces, if they are warped goes a long ways towards straightening and flattening. I know you understand that a crooked 8' piece cut in half has far less warp than the original piece. If the pieces are flat and straight, I leave them longer to eliminate snipe. If you plane a piece, snipe only occurs on the ends, so if you can cut four or five pieces out of a piece after planing, you only have to watch for snipe on the end pieces.
I have done all sorts of things on the jointer. Taper table legs. Leave a very slight hollow on the edges for a sprung joint. and more. I try to leave maximum thickness with both the jointer and planer to allow for flattening the panels, sometimes to the point of skip planing stock.
And, I have used other methods, such as the straight edge and TS and I have a track saw. Those things work, but I have a tiny shop and they introduce another tool that is immediately in the way. I tend to reserve them for pieces so large it's easier to apply the tool to the wood rather than the wood to the tool. For my next trick I want to see if I really can cut a glue line rip with my track saw.
So, the question was, which edge first, convex or concave?
Perhaps Barry could elaborate about the board prior to edge straightening. David, like you, it makes no sense to me to tend to the edges until the faces are flat, and thicknessed to parallel. Any effort to straighten edges prior to that will result in edges that may not be square. T.
In either situation a quick solution is to grab a hand plane to remove enough material to make less work and fewer passes with the jointer. The convex side has just one area (the hump) that needs material removed. Simply plane it flatter and then take the board to the machine. T.
Having a flat face is critical and must come first. I have had my jointer for almost fifty years, but got a planer much later. I have also begun to Jones after a wider jointer. Mine is 6" and I wish it were 12" or maybe one of those aircraft carrier sized ones about 24". Or maybe a big CNC. Even began to wonder about one of the convertible ones from jointer to planer, but I started when I was about 16 with a RAS as my only major tool and learned to hate converting things.
Saw a machine on YouTube that was bigger than my truck that would flatten the bottom and plane the top of a piece over three feet wide in a single pass. 30hp 3 phase. Just need a bigger shop and more power. And more capitol. And a few years added to my life.
Sheesh, don't know why I wasn't getting it but it's clear now. I suppose I probably deal with your example the same way you do. However, only up to a point. If the curve is too much, I either use the tablesaw and attached straightedge method or simply running one edge through the bandsaw freehanded. Then to the jointer.
1. Trading hand tool time for machine time seems a poor bargain and inefficient moving lumber between jointer an bench.
2. If the convex side is straightened it complicates the next step, ripping to width. Setting the fence to clean up the opposing side is easier if the narrow part of the board is at the ends than in the middle.
3. I have glued up hundreds of panels, many few thousands. Edge straightening is a trivial operation that should take seconds not minutes. For me it is simply faster to joint the concave edge. Send it across and listen for where it is cutting. If not symmetrical I will start at the end or in the middle depending on where more width needs to be removed. Fast passes are fast and then a slow finish pass when I hear the previous pass removed wood all along the edge. Feed rate is adjusted by sound. If I hear picking I slow down or slow down in the area where I heard picking the previous pass.
Barry, both methods have their place, and generally I prefer to machine plane with the concave edge down. However, if the board is very long, say twice as long as the beds of the surface plane (US Jointer) or more, sometimes it can work out easier if the convex edge is straightened first. This does require the ability to prevent the board rocking for the first few passes until a decent length of straightened edge is established, but after that the job's pretty straightforward.
The problem, only occasionally though, with very long boards that are bent (bowed in the length or bent on the edge) is that placing the the concave face or edge down to flatten can result in the tail end lifting up too much as it passes over the leading edge of the infeed table of the machine, which can make life a bit difficult: and that's the time where I might choose to straighten the convex face or edge. It's not something I do very often, if I can help it, but it's not very hard to do ... if you know what you're doing, ha, ha. Slainte.
why do you have snipe? Son in law bought a DeWalt "lunch box" planer at the recommendation of some here and he gets no snipe. I never got it either on a 13" Delta , nor an 18" Powermatic. I can get it from incorrect adjustment.
Hmm? Why do I have snipe? I guess I have just accepted it.
I have a Dewalt 733 (?) planer. It's more than ten years old. Maybe fifteen. It's the version that has two knives you can sharpen. I have replaced the bushings (bearings) once.
I just assumed snipe was part of the territory. I use all the tricks I know to eliminate it or at least minimize it. Run pieces end to end, side by side in overlapping sequences. And I lift the ends on the way in and out.
Now I am wondering if there is something I have overlooked....some adjustment I could make to improve it further. The snipe is not bad, maybe a few thousandths I can usually sand out if necessary.
I have been wondering if a platen running continuous to smooth the path through the machine.
I have been wondering if a platen running continuous to smooth the path through the machine.
I use a Delta 22-580, which is a 2-speed 13" planer with the supplied short infeed and outfeed tables. I can't say I never get any snipe but it's very minimal when it does occur and only on the trailing end.
I do have a piece of 1/2" MDF I place in the planer with a little cleat under the front edge to keep it in place. The cleat rests against the front edge of the infeed table and the MDF is just wide enough to fit the planer opening. I use this whenever I need to plane something to 1/4-inch or less.
The point is, I don't use it fulltime but I don't recall getting snipe when I use it. Maybe a "platen" like this would help you get better results. Maybe you might try it and see if it improves your problem. If not, something is in need of adjustment elsewhere.
You claimed cutting lumber 4" oversize so that snipe could be cut off. This situation would be intolerable waste of lumber in my situation and hence something I would strive to eliminate. But then you claim the snipe is a few thousandths of an inch and readily sanded away. So, are you throwing away 4" of lumber from every piece you plane so as to avoid what seems to be trivial sanding(or hand planing)?
I just put a platen in my other planer, the 15" brand x one I got for next to nothing, and it helped that one a lot. Maybe I will try a similar one in my Dewalt. And, you are right, I think the snipe is on the trailing end.
If not, something is in need of adjustment elsewhere.
This was the point I didn't make very successfully. The issue of snipe comes up occasionally. It is a result of a poorly designed machine or one not adjusted properly. It should not be normal.
In the case of a light industrial machine with a pressure bar trailing the cutter head, rollers and the height of this bar can be adjusted to eliminate it. In the case of a lunch box planer, I don't know what to adjust. But it does seem possible to eliminate it with some machines, as you point out and is the case with son in laws new DeWalt.