How to do these drawers?

that's not the only problem

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The screwed on legs look like a throwaway Ikea design. Some small unobtrusive wood pulls, perhaps not contrasting, will solve the drawer issue. Coming up with legs that are of the same quality of design and execution as the box is going to make or break the piece.

Re: that's not the only problem

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Yes, Bill ... I came to the same conclusion. I have a few ideas there.

I've seen a few of these designs with legs screwed into the base, or the use of a metal bracket to off set the legs, again screwed directly into the underside of the case. Bah.

Two ideas: one low-profile, and the other more "table-like".

The low profile concept is to use staked legs into a stretcher, with is attached to the underside with a sliding dovetail.

The "table-like" concept is to join the legs with mortice-and-tenons to stretchers, on a splay.

Thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: How to do these drawers?

Doug Wolf

Route a slot in the case under each drawer large enough for a finger. Simply use your finger to reach under and lift and pull the drawer open. This will lift the weight off the runners enough to open the drawer unless it is loaded with books. .

Re: How to do these drawers?

Sgian Dubh

Fairly wide finger(s) hole under the cabinet, one for each drawer, set back some distance from the front edge, maybe 45 - 70 mm: it may need to be more like a slot extending front to back rather than just a hole. Come up with some sort of point to engage the finger(s) on the underside of the drawer bottom, and/or attached to the back face of the drawer back. This allows the drawer to be pulled open enough so the top front edge of the drawer front becomes accessible from the cabinet's front.

A bit clunky being a two action requirement to open a drawer, but workable, and I've seen similar before. Come to think of it, I may have done something similar myself a couple or three times many moons ago, but I can't recall.

I do kind of understand your reluctance to use metal drawer runners, and touch release catches and the like, although those items are generally far more durable than your claimed five year limit. You sort of have the luxury to make such choices. I've always been more than happy to use bought in hardware of that type, or any other type for that matter. But then I've mostly been driven by building what the client wants, and if that's what they want, and it's right for job, I'll do it, ha ha. Slainte.

Re: How to do these drawers?

Yonak

Derek, maybe you could rig it so when you push one drawer in the other one comes out, and vice versa.

easy

Tom Sontag

just put a hinge on the bottom of each front leg and tip the whole thing forward until both drawers fall out.

Re: How to do these drawers?

Clint Searl

It looks chintzy and unfinished with those legs and no pulls.

Re: How to do these drawers?

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Doug and Richard, a slot under the drawers has been mentioned to me before. I cannot say that I am enthused by this. Not only is it likely to be awkward to get fingers in there, as well as potentially difficult to move a laden drawer, but opening a drawer requires two separate operations.

I suspect that the design is going to need to incorporate handles or pulls of some type. That would be sensible and practical. I shall have to come up with something that is sympathetic.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: How to do these drawers?

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

I agree, Clint. It is just the basis from which to build. That is where the fun lies

Regards from Perth

Derek

thoughts on drawers

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

People will expect the presence of a drawer to be signaled by some means of opening it. I don't understand any motivation to eliminate this signal from something intended to have drawers. I would have no motivation to design a drawer without some obvious means of opening it, that is a pull, knob, etc. I would not regard this expected feature of a drawer to be a distraction in a piece of furniture.

I am inclined to think making a drawer to look like a panel in a table skirt was motivated by an attempt at novelty rather than a breakthrough in furniture design. Attempts at novelty in furniture often don't end well.

If the designers thought was the means of opening the drawer was going to screw up the design of the veneer I would counter that the design of the door decoration should accommodate the means of opening it. see example below

Someone could have imagined that the pattern on the drawer would be compromised by the pull. Finding the "right" pull added to the design.

Bottom line-design a drawer front and means of opening it that compliment.

How about something like this

John in NM

Pity most are black though, you'd probably want to find one in brushed aluminum that wouldn't stand out so much.

Re: that's not the only problem

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I have seen a similar "case" built like it floated above a frame and legs. If I find the picture I will scan and send.

I think John nailed it!

Jesse Cloud

Wouldn't be hard to make from wood if what's commercially available doesn't suit.

Re: I think John nailed it!

Barry Irby

I like John's idea also.

I had two other thoughts if you insist on the invisible pull.

Make something under the bottom of the cabinet vaguely like a barrel bolt. A dowel or rod under the drawer and a little handle hanging down that can be used to push the drawer open enough to get a finger on it.

Or a dowel or rod mounted behind the drawer protruding out the back that can be used to push the drawer open.

Re: that's not the only problem

John in NM

I've never cared for this style, for exactly this reason. It looks fine, I don't mind the aesthetics, but it is very hard to build stout. If I were building one, I think I would attempt to do so using wedged through tenons, like a Windsor chair. Trick would be balancing how to maximize the shoulder size without making the tenon too small. But I guess Windsors don't have much of a shoulder, just enough to set the length? Maybe a shoulder isn't a structural necessity for that kind of joint.

Here's a thought...

John in NM

Make it out of several layers of matching veneer, formed to shape as you glue up, alternating grain like plywood. They would be small enough not to need a huge press to bend a nice curve in the front.

Re: How to do these drawers?

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Thanks for all the replies. They really helped consolidate my thoughts.

I found the original piece on the web: https://www.coxandcox.co.uk/chevron-oak-console-table

It is sold as a flat pack, and poorly constructed. Although the advert states that it is solid oak, it looks veneered ply/mdf to my eyes (the grain on the drawer edges is more obviously veneer, not just the planted fronts, but the upper edge).

If the drawers need a push-it mechanism, to propel it out a few inches, the drawers will need to have reduced friction, and this means they need to be on metal runners. Like kitchen drawers. I have emailed my niece to explain this and that this is a low quality option.

I really liked Charlie's idea of semi circular drawers. I would like the challenge of building them (I came close to building drawers like this in the Harlequin Table). However, I think they are impractical. Fun, but impractical. I have suggested to my niece that the hall table uses more traditional drawers with unobtrusive handles.

The overall design is clean and quite nice. It could benefit from more refined details. That will be my contribution. I need to retain the look of the legs, but with a different undercarriage. The current design likely utilises metal connectors, something like these ...

They are likely quite strong, but a more refined construction would use a sliding dovetail with a staked mortice-and-tenon. This should add a lot more meat under the legs and still retain the slim profile ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Moderately stiff spring as a stop...

david weaver

installed behind the drawers in the cabinet.

what I mean is a spring that the drawers can be pushed back against that would spring them out an inch or two when released, but not unless intentionally pushed with some conviction. As in, when you close the drawers, they won't easily compress the springs and pop back out and create an infinite loop for the user.

I would've started with Richard's suggestion for drawers built for me, though -with a tab to pull under the drawers.

If you are using wood on wood contact and can rely on the recipient to wax runners, the spring would work. without wax, it might be an exercise in pushing the drawer in only to see it stay in.

Re: Moderately stiff spring as a stop...

Buckaroo

TABLE CONSTRUCTION- BUILD FRAME/ATTACH LEGS. CUT FIT BOTTOM ONTO FRAME. PLACE DRAWERS INTO/ON BOTTOM. DRAW LINES ON BOTTOM WHERE DRAWER SIDES WERE AT. REMOVE DRAWERS. CUT LONG ONE INCH WOOD STRIPS , GLUE & SCREW'M TO BOTTOM of table. These are guides for drawers.

PULLS= THERE ARE SO MANY DESIGNS, good grief, tell the customer to go pick out what they want.

Gotta go my ice cream is melting!!!!

Re: How to do these drawers?

Hank Knight

Derek, I generally agree that metal drawer slides don't speak "quality" in a nice piece of furniture. However, I used Blum Blumotion Tandem undermount drawer slides on a piece I recently built and was (am) very impressed with them. They are expensive, but they are invisible on the finished piece and provide a very smooth open/close action. They would be perfect for your piece. Take a look at them.

Re: How to do these drawers?

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Hank, thanks. My knee-jerk reaction to using mechanical fittings is to back away. I am sure that these are well made, will last forever, and run smoothly. But I am such a traditionalist at heart. I have modern taste in design, but am still strongly connected to the 18 C for construction methods. I just prefer wood-on-wood for drawers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ditto on kitchen cabinet hardware

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It does not belong in fine furniture. It does, however, go well with MDF and computer generated real wood grain.

I don't see the drawer appearance as much of a design challenge. It seems OK to use a wildly different wood. Is that the only veneer pattern that can be used on a drawer? Concurrently design a drawer front and something to grab onto to open it. It has been done a million times before, attractively.

Anyone fretting how to open a drawer with a cloak of invisibility is missing the real design challenge for this piece- how to support the box. Nobody is going to notice even an inappropriate drawer pull if awkward box levitation commands attention.

Re: How to do these drawers?

Steve Elliott

The Blumotion undermount slides are a good product but they don't solve the problem of how to open a drawer without a pull. They can be used with the touch-latch hardware that lets the user push the drawer in to make it pop out but that just adds another mechanical gizmo. (I haven't personally used the touch latch option with Blum undermounts but I think I've seen that option in their product literature.)

One of my criteria for good design is that it helps the user know how the piece works. A drawer with no pull doesn't do this. For that matter a row of doors with concealed hinges and touch latches doesn't let the user know which side of the door to push on even if he or she realizes how touch latches work.

Derek, you design and build for decades or more of use. This piece has a number of interesting design issues to work out and I'll be interested to see what you do with it.