Explanation Needed

Re: Explanation Needed

Barry Irby

I have had rechargeable tools for many years. They suffer the fate you mentioned. I recently gave away a set of Makita tools because I had had the batteries rebuilt several times. The fellow I gave them to took the batteries apart and interchanged various cells and they went back to work, for a while. He made a couple of good ones out of about four.

I have a number of Bosch tools now and they all have interchangeable batteries, LION. The older ones were NiCad.

Many companies now make long lines of tools that use the same batteries. They seem to have plateaued at about 18 or 20 volts. Some of the tools use two of the batteries at the same time.

I tend to think of my battery powered tools as shop tools not really for job sites and heavy construction. That is not true anymore. Many tools now are used by professionals on construction sites.

I suppose if you have numerous tools you can justify buying replacement sets of batteries occasionally. But, like you, I struggle with it and resent the cost of new batteries and having to rebuild them.

Rigid (I think) offered a lifetime warranty. Discussions here have lead me to believe it is so difficult to get them to perform that it is nearly worthless.

Re: Explanation Needed

John K Jordan

>>>I had the two Dewalt batteries rebuilt as an experiment. Why does it cost almost as much to rebuild the batteries as it does to just buy a whole new kit?

When I needed new DeWalt batteries like you said it was always cheaper to buy a new drill or angle grinder or something that came with batteries and a charger. I ended up with a bunch of unused drills and just a few working batteries. That's pretty sad.

I did find I could rejuvenate some batteries with deep discharge. When building my shop I notched the 6x6 posts with successive cuts with a DeWalt circular saw. I'd count and record the number of cuts I'd get out of each battery. I ran them down until they couldn't cut well then blocked the blade and jammed the trigger until the battery was deader than dead. After a few cycles of this it was amazing how much the batteries improved. I need to do that again with some of my weak batteries.

For me the DeWalt batteries have been the worst, even the new 20v lithium ion packs. I have a Hitachi impact driver and the batteries still work like new after maybe 8 years of use.

JKJ

Cut the cord

Thomas T Dunlap

Many years ago I got on the DW train. When the battery packs died my first solution was to have them rebuilt by a Batteries R Us type franchise. Pretty cheap compared to new batteries. The lsat few times I did business with a place in Florida who sold the guts all soldered and wired. REally, afew seconds with a torx bit in my DW driver then swap out the guts, back together and I'm back to work. SUPER cheap! Now I've got the new batteries for the next number of years. Many of my arborist friends who are still doing production work are tickled with Husky and Stihl. My brother, arbo too, went with Ryobi which are cheaper nda are "b"grade to the big boys "a" nda he's happy

Re: Explanation Needed

William Duffield

Warning! Deep discharge works for NiCad batteries, but would destroy LiIon batteries forthwith. Because of the LiIon limitations, the charger/battery system has a microprocessor built in that prevents overcharging, charging too fast, undercharging, discharging too fast and overheating. When you reach one of the limits, the battery or the charger just shuts off. However, the tool manufacturers can tweak the limit parameters if they want to advertise higher performance in one parameter, but they do this at the expense of battery life.

Re: Cut the cord

John K Jordan

>>> The lsat few times I did business with a place in Florida who sold the guts all soldered and wired.

I'd like the name or contact info on this place if they still provide this service.

For NiCad I've done it the hard way, disassembled several batteries, tested all the cells, then rebuilt with just the good cells. I've also done the zapping method, hit the battery with a pulse of high current. From the literature, a cause of NiCad failure is in crystals growing and shorting internally. A high current pulse can vaporize the tiny crystals. In the lab we used a bank of large electrolytic capacitors for this. I don't have these now but I've tried the welding machine method (ground one terminal and make a spark on the other with a welding rod.) I've had mixed results with this - some batteries were restored and some were not. It might be important to get the polarity right, I don't know. I know the zapping method can work well with single cells but maybe it's less useful with packs of multiple cells.

>>>Warning! Deep discharge works for NiCad batteries, but would destroy LiIon batteries forthwith.

This is true.

JKJ

Re: Explanation Needed

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

"Why does it cost almost as much to rebuild the batteries as it does to just buy a whole new kit?"

Probably labor cost: in a factory setting, the assembly of the whole kit can be done efficiently. Rebuilding batteries is done by one worker, sitting at a bench, opening up the battery, determining what cells are needed, getting them, reassembling, etc. Less efficient labor.

Re: Explanation Needed

Mike L

If you want to keep your NiCad batteries working longer, place them in a fridge after using them before charging them. Also after charging before placing them in the tool. I use a baggie and leave them for around twenty minutes or so to cool off. If really hot then let them sit longer before charging. Heat kills them.

The new chargers have temp sensors etc as stated above. They will also deep cycle the batteries when needed. The first thing they do is look at the temp inside the battery pack if it is to high it will allow it to cool off, if it is building up to much heat while it is charging it will slow down the charge. When it is done charging it allows the temp to cool down before it says it is done.

I sold off all my NiCad tools a few years ago and went with the new LiOn style. They have a lot more power have smart chargers and they have come a long way since the old days.

I just bought a Dewalt 20/60 volt leaf blower, string trimmer and chain saw, so far with my limited use they work great.

Mike

Tool replacement not all bad right now

Dick Coers

Donating the old cordless tools to Habitat for Humanity Restore, and buying new right now is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm really impressed with the Lithium-ion technology. They are especially good if the tools sit on the shelf for a month without use. I understand how you feel though.

I used to grouse about the cost of batteries, until I started riding electric assist bicycles. An extra generic pack I bought for my recumbent tadpole trike cost over $500. When I need a replacement for my Bosch powered bikes, it will be close to $900. I currently am nearing 3000 miles on the eBikes though, so need to concentrate on the cost per mile! Makes a $50 tool pack seem like a bargain though.

Re: Explanation Needed

John in NM

I think it is marketing practices that have changed over the years, not some inherent property of tools themselves. Yes, replacing two batteries is roughly 2/3 to 3/4 the price of a kit with two batteries, two tools, and one charger, but the same is true of buying one of the single tools to replace a broken one - my wife managed to break an impact driver, by providing it with some impact rather than letting it do the impacting (yeah, I have a temper too.... not casting stones).

The point is, they discount the kits for whatever reason they do - then charge more for anything you need to replace, not just the batteries. Though I don't understand it, this is modern marketing. Perhaps they are making a 10% margin on the kits and a 110% margin on individual replacements at a much lower frequency. Some bean counter probably figured it averages to the margin they need to hit over the course of a year, accounting for increased volume at low margin and much higher margin on the replacements.

The question I always ask is would you pay twice as much or more for the kit in order to pay much less for batteries and replacements? That was the old model, and from what I've seen, most consumers prefer this one. I think what the tool companies found was that the high initial pricing kept customers out of the market that used to be just pros.

Battery packs...great price/service *LINK*

Thomas T Dunlap

Sometimes I have to bask in a little self-gloating glow. Bookmark files can be hard to search. In this case I changed the name of the bookmark to ' BEST battery service' instead of the company name. I'm so happy with their service


Gulf Coast batteries

Looks Like NiCad Only

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

I've been LIon for several years now. No NiCad of NMHm in the inventory

Re: Look at tool brands

Kneale Brownson

Shows lithium for Ridgid.

Dewalt batteries...

Michael Farinella

I live in the hot Southwest. Heat destroys batteries - especially NiCad. My shop is not air conditioned. So now (after 2 sets of batter failures) I bring my batteries in the house after I'm done for the day. I will not buy a Dewalt battery tool any more. No problems with Bosch.

Good reason

Mike L

to buy a beer fridge and put it in your garage. Opps a battery fridge(-;

Re: Good reason - excellent tip

Martin

That is the best tool tip I have read in a LONG time

Well, not

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

batteries don't like cold either no matter lithium or NiCd or Nickel metal hydride. Large battery arrays like what power a bus have their own climate control to prolong life. Your car battery would last a decade if you lived in a mild climate.

Re: Well, not

William Duffield

It sounds like you might need two beer fridges. I keep my beer, shellac, CA glue, liquid hide glue, etc., in the one I have, but would need to add another one, with the thermostat set higher, and probably including a power strip for the chargers. But in the dead of winter, this battery storage unit would probably need a heater to keep it from getting too cold. We have a second fridge, but my wife was planning to store sample media (gas collection tubes for assessing indoor air quality) in it. Some of them, in particular for formaldehyde, need to be kept cold. But the tubes are still in the food fridge in the kitchen.