Safe, easy stains for mass production? *LINK*

Re: Safe, easy stains for mass production?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

NGR stain and a spray gun. Available anywhere professional finishing products are sold. NGR stands for non-grain raising. About 2 minutes to stain a bed.

We used to mass produce doll cradles for salvation army. Poplar, NGR walnut stain, lacquer. Quick commercial quality finish.

Or, spray with pigmented lacquer for a painted look.

Re: Safe, easy stains for mass production?

John in NM

Ferric acetate is the name of iron + vinegar.

It reacts with tannins in the wood, so it will turn oak and walnut very dark. Turns maple a hideous green color. Wipe with some dilute lye, and that green turns to a nice medium brown (ferric turns to ferrous with the lye). Ammonia would probably do the same if the lye is undesirable.

I like ferric nitrate better, the brown is a bit warmer, but the concept is the same. Results with either are highly variable with maple, since the tannin is variable with different species, trees, and probably even parts of the same tree. Still a neat technique to know about.

Got to raise the grain before applying if you've used a rasp - otherwise you'll find compressed tooth tracks popping back up even after they were sanded flat. This stain raises the grain nicely, but a few of those ridges mean starting over with sanding and then staining.

complicated chemistry

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The first product of dissolving iron with acid is ferrous iron( the hydrogen released makes a reducing environment). Unless stabilized by reacting with something else the ferrous iron will react with air to make ferric iron. Ferrous iron compounds are typically light in color, and often green. Ferric compounds are typically orange or red.

Addition of lye, or any caustic material, will make ferric or ferrous hydroxide, which again will oxidize to ferric to make rust. But the lye will also react with the lignin to make colors. The final color would be some combination of lye reacted lignin and the iron reacted with oxygen, and iron reacting with lignin or its reaction product with lye.

It all seems a lot of effort when dye stains are readily available.

Re: Safe, easy stains for mass production?

JL

I won't disagree with the thought of spraying a NGR stain.

I don't necessarily agree with their methodology - though I do understand it.

Not everyone is experienced w/ spraying. Dipping a piece of wood in an aqueous solution of vinegar and iron "salts" is relatively quick, easy, non-toxic and relatively safe.

I've used nitric acid/iron stains before - but those are somewhat hazardous.

I don't know if the organization wants to go to spraying - I will have to ask.

Re: complicated chemistry

John in NM

I always get the two irons backwards Chemistry was never my stronger suit.

Sure, its effort. But then its a lot of effort to build furniture when you can just go buy some paper covered particle board at American Home, isn't it? What makes the effort worth it is the pleasure of learning to do things, whether its making furniture or making stain. Its interesting to do.

Its also a lot of effort to put in the practice to get good results from off the shelf pigment stains. I can't tell that you've stained your work, but usually a stained piece sticks out like a sore thumb, giving stains somewhat of a bad name. Minwax's overly strong and oddly colored dyes didn't help that name much either. I can get decent results from Minwax if I pick two to mix together, but diluted pigment stain works better. Diluted is the key thing for me.

It seems like an awful lot of vinegar to me . . . 

It is a lot of vinegar..

JL

Thank goodness for Costco - and the large bottles.

Here are the two tanks.