How to assemble this joint?

Re: How to assemble this joint?

Kneale Brownson

I'd use a spline. I'd use small C clamps on each arm and big C clamps to apply holding pressure.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

Bruce, a MN Galoot

I’d glue on blocks and clamp across the joint.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

Don Stephan

Second the suggested spline. Clamping blocks could be temporarily attached with hot hide glue or hot melt glue. I've been told that alcohol will make dried hot hide glue very brittle so that the glue joint can be taken apart with little damage, but I have no experience.

More info

John in NM

Is it a long miter or a short one? Edge grain or end grain, or a mix? Hand tool or power tool?

The shop I used to work for did a 90 degree version of that for a raised panel armoire. The owner preferred using biscuits to reinforce the joint, but I liked a full length spline from 1/4" plywood. In that case clamping was easy. In yours, I would glue on blocks as suggested. You don't need huge clamp pressure, so you could use the wood-paper-wood trick to make them low risk for removal.

Making the miter itself isn't hard, I got best results cutting the miter on the table saw and then cleaning/finishing the joint surfaces on a #7 plane clamped upside down in a vise. But a power jointer works fine too, just need to leave a little extra width since they take off more wood per pass. That part isn't substantially different for a 135 vs a 90 miter.

But if its a rail miter the answer is different - I'm just making assumptions based on your previous posts.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

Keith Newton

What I’ve done, is cut the face frame square, then cut an inside corner on the side frame. Out of scrap plywood cut a clamping jig that hooks around the end so that your clamp of choice is straight down in line with the face frame.

You can also make the clamping blocks for the miter like you’ve shown, then use biscuits to keep the front corner aligned.

That's a good one

John in NM

I think that would work better than gluing the blocks on.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

Barry Irby

I think I would cut the joint differently. Put a 45* on the wing, run the face frame past it with a 45* on the edge. Use biscuits or small Dominoes or a spline to assure the alignment. This way you are not looking straight into the joint. Use

clamping blocks glued on with hot melt glue. the blocks can be knocked off easily and even easier if you soak them with Denatured alcohol.

You could run the face frame past by an 1/8" or a 1/16" proud or you could plane/sand it flush.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

William Duffield

I assume you are continuing to discuss construction of your corner cupboard.

Bill Hylton specifies a through splined miter joint in Illustrated Cabinetmaking, p. 297.

In Country Pine, (probably not to your taste) Bill Hylton shows a miter joint and nails it together with 6d cut nails, predrilled, countersunk and puttied.

I also found plans for a Stickley No. 719 corner china cabinet in Bob Lang's Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture. It shows a simple mitered joint, but offers no specific joinery techniques.

It seems to me that since these are long grain to long grain glue joints, when completed they should be as strong as a plane glued up panel, with no additional complicated joinery required. At most, splines, biscuits, Dominoes or even a strip of packing tape along the outside faces could be used for alignment while the glue dries. With hot hide glue, you could even get away with a rubbed joint. Joint alignment would be even easier if you were building your corner cupboard as two separate stacked cabinets, since the joints would be shorter.

Another support mechanism is often used for these cabinets: Dados to hold the shelves are cut in the spine, the face frame members, and the wings. The shelves themselves are first attached to the spine, the face frames are joined with mortise and tenons and glued up, and the shelves are then used to support the wings and face frames while they are being joined. Finally, the ship-lapped backs are nailed to the shelves.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

Paul Leuba

I’ve done several corner cabinets using a split design where the upper cabinet and lower cabinet were constructed separetly and then joined together when installed in their final location.

In each case it was more than sufficient to use tape to hold this joint together while the glue cured. Biscuits were used to ensure alignment of the edges was maintained when the pressure of the tape was applied. The joints in both oak and cherry remain virtually invisible. The long grain to long grain run along the length of the boards makes for a powerful bond. More than enough to ensure rigidity of the cabinet.

Paul in Hunt Valley, MD

P.S.

Paul Leuba

It would be straight forward and quick to perform a test of this technique to gain confidence of its utility.

Re: How to assemble this joint?

TomD

You can brace the outer edge so that it lies on a table like a bridge, adjust the outer corner restraints so that the joint just presses together perfectly. Biscuits or dowels, or dominos to stop slipping, these do not need to be glued in, if it is sidegrain, and that makes assembly easier. Drape some bags of shot over the joint to pressure it down, or use go sticks from the ceiling.

If you want you can use hide-glue to place a few blocks either side of the joint, so that you can add a little clamping pressure. Hide glue releases with alcohol, but titebond in the joint won't.

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You can also set it up for a rubbed joint. It makes great joints, simply position the lower joint so that the top piece will be vertical. You can brace the lower against a wall so that when you place the vertical piece on to, it can't slide off. Rub it till it seizes, and leave it to dry. Another option is to drill tiny holes that split the boards at the ends. Rub the joints without the wall, and insert dowels into the ends of the joint to register the joint. Sorta like the dowels were hinges. You can also easily use biscuits, you could probably do a small slot in the lower and lightly glue a small biscuit in, and a bigger slot in the upper, and get a rub going that way. Properly made, rubbed joints can be frustratingly difficult to detect, they can be impossible to find even when you know where to look. This has happened to me with guitars. The only downside is rarely are joints flat and straight enough, unless you intentionally make them that way.

Masking Tape Works Well

Steve Elliott

I've done many mitered joints using strips of masking tape both to pull the joint together and to align the surfaces where it matters, right at the apex. Many of the joints were on veneered surfaces where a little misalignment could be a real problem.

Here are a few tips:

The type of masking tape matters a lot. It needs to be creped, which makes it stretchy. Creped tape is a little like the crepe paper I remember from grade school projects--it stretches in one direction. Most higher quality masking tapes are creped. It's this stretchiness that pulls the joint together. Each strip is pressed onto one side of the joint and is then stretched a little as the other side is pressed down. I start with tape strips a few inches apart and add more wherever there's no squeeze-out yet. I like to end up with little pinhead sized drops of glue all along the edge. The glue underneath the tape stays moist longer than it takes the joint to set so if the tape is removed at the right time glue can be washed out of the pores if necessary. (I've only used this technique with yellow glue, Bill, so I'm glad you like it.)

Among the tapes I've used I have found a favorite that's both stretchy and strong. It's made by Intertape Polymer Group (ipg) and is designated PG5. Home Depot carries it where I live.

Another tip is to cut the joint slightly looser at the back. For a 90 degree joint I'd cut the miter at maybe 44-3/4 degrees so that the joint comes together tightly at the apex without squeezing all the glue out. To get the angle of the joint right I check with a square or angle gauge after I've pulled it together. Usually I have to pull the back of the joint together a little because all the tape pressure is right at the apex.

Getting the right amount of glue on the joint is important and can only be learned by experience. Too much glue can be very messy.

To apply an even coat of glue quickly I use a little paint roller.

I'd suggest doing a few test joints on scrap material first to get the technique down.

I've worked in both cabinet shops and custom furniture shops and this has been the most commonly used method. It gives a good result and requires almost no equipment. For a long-grain joint I think a spline would not add any significant benefit.

Cupboard will be upper and lower unit

Tape

How to assemble this joint?

Tom Colligan

How 'bout glue blocks on the outside?

Side note....

Barry Irby

I haven't made friends with my handplanes, so I lack the confidence to try to perfect this joint.

I saw a video on cutting this type of long miter on the TS and they used an excellent rip blade and power feeder. Their claim was that it provided much more consistent alignment than just hand feeding it. Board Buddies, those angled wheels you add to the fence to hold the board down and against the fence might work also. Certainly use feather boards.

Just some ideas.