CAD can be dangerous

Talk about...

Ellis Walentine

... what CAD program you use and which one you'd recommend to beginners. I realize there are degrees of beginners. Can you (0r anyone here) recommend the current state of play in elementary CAD for furniture world. Thirty years, when I was still in manufacturing world, we used AutoCad. (Not me, my cohorts in the engineering department.) Later, there were a bunch of lower end programs for wannabee designers. Bob Lang came down heavily on the side of Google's Sketch Up, and I know that several of our veteran design/build members are in that camp.

If I wanted to get into CAD, with my considerable drafting experience, which program would be a good fit for furniture and lower-end architectural work?

Ellis

PS Nice boat.

Re: Talk about...

TomD

I am probably not the right person to recommend this as I have stuck with very old 2 and 3d cad programs, because they work perfectly for what I want. I am using TurboCad, version 7. I find it extremely easy and intuitive. I started noticing when solidworks came out that there would be posts like "just got a solidworks package on Friday, and here is something I was working on over the weekend, what do you think?". The question referred to the object, not the drawing which would be startlingly perfect and far beyond anything I could even imagine. So there are new packages that are far easier to use.

One thing one needs to think very carefully about is what is the output one is looking for. And of course one should ask around to find out what one could get. With boats I do two types of construction, in the case of plywood I need a cad that will allow me to derive flat panels and give me hydro. That is a specialty thing, but the output is going to be 2d, though it starts with 3d. But ply is basically 2d, and routers would be 2.5d (the Z axis is only lifting the bit out of the cut). But another person might want plans they could build from, but photo realistic renderings for the client experience. If you can figure out what you want out of it, that will help you get the right start.

I use a special programs for musical instruments, which is free, so at times there are things out there for specialties.

Sketchup seems very popular. I don't use it, but like solidworks, people seem capable of producing 3d renderings relatively easily. There is also a great deal of free files, and you can use these parametrically, meaning you can start with any related object and modify it. So the more free stuff the merrier, it also says something about how a package draws if it can be modified that way. Sketchup is "free". So that seemed to be the point where many people decided they should jump in. I like the fact the things I use are mine and have no connection to google.

I also use Draftsight, which is a good free basic program. I find the design space a little cluttered. I mostly just use it to modify files, given my old cad sometimes needs to play with current files. I also use inkspace for that.

Autodesk has Tinkercad, which seems to be in competition with Sketchup.

2D vs 3D

Tony - Memphis

I use CAD extensively - for almost every project. I've been at it so long that its as comfortable as a pencil. I use a very old program called IntelliCAD. There used to be a freebie version (that's what I have). There is a new version out there. Draftsight by Solidworks looks exactly like what I use. I'm not terribly familiar with how it all worked, but I understand there was a core that a lot of folks built on?

While I appreciate solid modeling (I use it for personal stuff several times a week), for most shop projects, 2D is fine. Much less learning curve too. Easy to understand lines, endpoints, circles, etc. I use 2D for templates, layouts, looking at proportions, jigs, etc. etc.

I guess what you need depends on what you plan to do. For general workshop stuff, I would start with a freebie 2D program. Once you get the hang of that, I would try Sketchup. After that, you will be prepared to use just about anything. I'm using AutoDesk Fusion 360 now for modeling. It is free for us hobby folks and it is an amazing program. I use it a lot for 3D printer models.

My bets advice is to pick a program with lots of tutorials available, be patient, practice. It will become second nature quickly and you'll appreciate having a new tool in your arsenal.

Re: 2D vs 3D

TomD

Fusion 360 is what I meant to say. I don't use it, but was aware it had come along. Thanks Tony

I agree, at least for what I do that 2D is what I need. I use several 3D programs but they are not 3D CAD in the sense that I am drawing in 3 dimensions as I would if I used the 3D capability of TurboCad, or AutoCad. These are special programs designed to allow one to design in 3D without the requisite skills, and to easily process other related task to one's main task. Same idea as using Lotus 123, or similar, does not mean I can add and keep up to date in real time columns of figures. Even if I could do 3D modeling it would not make sense to design boats that way, without a hull design package as well.

Since you mentioned me . . . *LINK*

Bob Lang

I'm still a fan of SketchUp, still teaching and writing about it and still using it all the time. My background was drafting on a board, then AutoCAD for several years and SketchUp for the last 12 years.

It's a different mindset than "making a drawing". Building a model is more like going out to the shop and making something. The focus is on how the thing will look, function and fit in a given space instead of what the drawing will look like. When the model is complete you can then extract whatever two-dimensional views or other information you need.

The versatility of SketchUp is also one of the reasons I prefer it over other programs. A quick model becomes an image to sell a project, with the client able to see it from any angle or in relation to other pieces or an entire room. After the sale is made details can be added to that model so I know everything (except for how heavy it is) I need to know about every part. For woodworkers it eliminates common mistakes that if made in the shop cost dearly in time and materials.

There is still a free downloadable version of SketchUp Make in addition to the relatively new online "SketchUp Free". The link below gives a rundown on the various versions and I've been told I'm a pretty good resource for folks who want to learn 3D modeling.

One last thought from the original post in this thread. It's relatively easy to print full size patterns from SketchUp, even big things. Comparing the two stretcher variations in SketchUp might have eliminated the "looked good on screen but not in real life" issue.

Bob Lang


Which Version of SketchUp?

Re: Since you mentioned me . . .

TomD

That was really me being dumb. I used an ellipse, and it was well stretched out. So there were tight radii that I could easily see, I just failed to figure out the effect that would have blending it in the final piece. It should have been obvious there would be a problem.

Re: Talk about...

Ed Wozniak

I find that Sketchup works fine for furniture design. I had some experience with 2D cad before trying to get into 3D work. You have to think different from 2D when you work in 3D. It was a struggle for quite a while for me. Finally I bought "SketchUp Guide for Woodworkers" by Timothy S. Killen (published by Taunton Press) and it all finally clicked. It does allow you to make drawings as if you were building the piece, but it takes a little bit of learning before it can become a useful tool. Even if you end up using a software package that costs a modest sum there will still be an additional time investment required to learn the program. But in the end, for me at least, the effort is worth it.