I am preparing a program for our club on shop lighting. The program will involve discussing lighting requirements for various tasks and light sources to achieve these requirements. I lack some data you all might have.
What is the lumen output (lumens per fixture or lumens per lamp) of the LED shop lights you are using? These data will be on the packaging or any description of the fixture or lamp.
I can readily find data on LED lighting in general but it varies widely with manufacturer and model, 1700 to 3000 lumens per 4' lamp. At 1700 lumens it would take almost two LED lamps to equal the output of one T8, or three to equal one T5HO. At 3000 the LED lamp would be nearly equivalent.
I need data on what people are able to readily find and are using. The nearest Cosco is 250 miles away so I can't readily go check.
My son just bought me some LED shop lights (2 bulbs) from Costco for $20.00 each. They were rated at 4000 lumen per light fixture. WoodCraft sells some shop lights that are rated at 5000. They are about $50.00 each. At our last SAPFM meeting we had a brief discussion about converting existing florescent fixtures to LED. Our host had bought some replacement LED bulbs that you you bypassed the ballast and just snapped the new bulbs in. You could order these new bulbs with either single or double pins on each end. They also were directional in the fact that you could "aim" them without having to remove them from the fixture. He had low ceiling in the meeting area of his shop. These lights were instant on, no hum, no flicker, and not affected by temperature.
A good place to look for the spec's you're talking about is Rockler.com as they list these on line.
I have purchased all the LED's in my shop from them which I really like.
I have the strip type one's and the single bulb with reflective shade one's used as task lighting.
Single bulb units can be had in 2500 lumen up to 4400 lumen when I was looking.
On the strip type fixtures they had 4000 lumen, 7500 lumen (which I purchased) and 10,000 lumen (not a typo) they say ten thousand, wow!
I have 2 of the single 2500 lumen one over my lathe. 3 more single's over my wood bench on articulating arms. Another 4400 single on a swinging arm for general use. And the 7500 strip one hangs over my carving bench.
I really like this set up as I need more light as I get older and magnification!
I just replaced some compact fluorescent screw-in type bulbs with these Stonepoint Model GGL-50, 55W, 4400 lumen LEDs from Northern Tool and I'm very impressed so far (lifespan? To be determined...). If I read your question correctly, I think what you are trying to get is the lumens per watt. For this bulb it is 80 lumens/W. I would think that you would want to compare this number to the area covered, to get lumens/sf, and then compare that to the desired brightness for the task.
My 4' LEDs are 3200 lumens each, and I currently have 20 of them. There are lights of higher lumen ratings, but I like these particular LEDs because they're 4000K, which is the perfect temperature for photography for me.
I have three working areas of my shop, and the lights I just described are in two of them; that third work area has no special lighting yet, as I haven't completed setting it up. For now, in there are just a couple regular ceiling incandescent screw-in fixtures. When I finally have time to set up that area, I'll probably put eight of those same 4' LED strips in there.
"These lights were instant on, no hum, no flicker, and not affected by temperature.
Any fluorescent fixture bought in the past 20 years doesn't slow start, hum or flicker, features of magnetic ballasts that have not been possible to buy for at least two decades.
LED output is temperature dependent. The colder the better. They dazzle in liquid nitrogen.
I am not against LED lighting. But I do object to it being over-sold by people comparing it to ancient fluorescent technology and claiming improvement when there may be none. Anybody pulling a working T8 lamp out of a fixture and replacing it with a LED tube is wasting their money and getting less light.
If the appeal of LED's in a shop setting is that their light is not diffuse like a fluorescent light. There may be less light produced, but it is more directed and thus seems brighter in a way, producing contrast and shadow needed for many shop tasks.
I once made some display cases for a friend who was a gem dealer. I was surprised that he wanted fluorescent lamps installed, rather than the sparkle inducing halogens that all the other booths at the gem shows seemed to sport. But sure enough, the fluorescents made the color of the stones show up much better than bright directed lamps - it was because the light was diffuse.
Lumen output is not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. An LED tube does not output a 360° cylinder of light, whereas a fluorescent tube does--meaning a greater portion of the light from a fluorescent tube is absorbed by the fixture in which it's installed.
And, since LED lights are more available with a dimming capability, it's easier to overshoot for the light you need, then apply some dimming.
I do wish I had a light meter so that I could compare a couple 4' fluorescent fixtures I just converted in my home from T8 to LED. But I like the amount of light from them.
I'm using multi bulb fixtures, as well as some task lights. The fixtures hold 3-7 bulbs and they hold them parallel to the ceiling which seems to reduce the eye catching glare some leds seem to have.
Bill, a recent thread on WC regarding LED shop lighting prompted me to no longer procrastinate and replace my 23-year old T12 fluorescent 4-footers with LEDs. Probably half were dead for whatever reason. Used single-ended 2100 lumen, 18-watt, 3000K bulbs. Discarded the ballasts and installed non-shunted tombstones (kept the shunted tombstones at the dead-end in some of the fixtures). Fifty-six bulbs total. It was a fun project and I'm extremely pleased with the light. Hope this helps with your science project. Jim
Shown is a picture of a typical LED lamp. It too has a reflector. The question is whether it reflects more or less light than the reflector above the typical fluorescent. I don't know. Nor do I know the details of how lumens are measured for the two sources, which could be substantially different. Both sources fade over time but I have no data on comparative rates.
I have a meter. If I can arrange it I will make a comparison of a "shop" LED to a two lamp T8.
As suggested I looked in Rockler and that was a most useful suggestion to follow. They have a 10,000 lumen fixture for $99. For about the same price I installed a 4 lamp T5HO that puts out 20,000 lumen of better quality light (significantly higher CRI) and higher temperature, for those that prefer sun light illumination. Two of these fixtures over my long wide bench illuminates it at 300 ft candles, approaching outside daylight in the shade. Peripheral areas are 200 ft candles, still excellent for detailed work.
Most of the claims for the Rockler light were comparing this lamp to no longer (decades old) available fluorescent lamps. Misleading at best unless your shop has 40 year old lighting. Trading arsenic for mercury may or may not be important to the customer.
Cost of initial purchase is, of course, important. However, cost of electricity over time is the point with LEDs. They -should- pay for themselves if they live up to their '50,000 hr' lifespan and their low energy use. I have had some short-lived LEDs so far and so I am a bit skeptical as I continue to purchase... YMMV, heh, your bulb life may vary: YBLMV.
Bill, last year I bought 8 link-able 4500 lumen shop lights at my local Sam's Club for $34.99 each. I believe they are rated 5000K. Thia was a VAST improvement over my single 8ft T12 fixture installed at the building of my home and garage. My neighbor across the street jokes that he can "see" my shadow through the aluminum garage door. He says the light is so strong it interferes with his sleep, 3 hours after I turn them off. On a serious note, I no longer have much shadow on my projects, since I have the fixtures about 2 feet apart across the rafters. I plan to get a couple more to hang over the tool storage. Good luck with your search!
This is a different thought. As a Home Inspector I was all about flashlights. In the early days of LED lights I got several that had multiple "bulbs" of whatever the little chiclets are called. I found them to very difficult to see with. Hard to explain, but in dark areas such as attics and crawl spaces they appeared to produce a "blurry" image. Sort of like one of the special effects where they blend five similar images into one. I did not see the effect with a light that had a single chiclet or bulb.
I wonder if the same effect occurs with shop lights?
Bought three of these almost exactly 2 years ago. One died after a year-and-a-half, the second began increasing and then decreasing in brightness at about the same time. The third is still doing well. They do give good light. Your mileage may vary.
Note that the LEDs are in a strip that illuminate mostly downward, whereas a T5-8-12 will illuminate a full 360°, losing some light to the fixture. Like you said, who knows how any given company measures "output"?
If the lamp LED's look yellow they likely have a phosphor coating to convert some of the blue LED light to yellow to yield more or less white. Some, maybe all, such arrangements have a reflector to redirect the fluorescent light out the lens. In any case the light output would be measured as the integral of the sum of whatever is emitted by the lamp in all directions. Same is usually true for a fluorescent tube measurement.
John, I chose the Hyperikon brand sold on Amazon. While, perhaps, not the cheapest, the reviews seemed solid, and the specs/website transparent and provided a lot of additional info. Packaging was excellent and all 56 bulbs lit up. This Amazon web page link seems to show the 5000K bulb, but I actually got the 3000K bulb as I like the slightly warm color having been burnt on other too blue LEDs. But this is subjective. Hyperikon will supply, on request, free non-shunted tombstones. They used to supply a tombstone with each bulb, but are phasing out that policy. Email contact with the company was immediately returned and responded too. Received my tombstones several days later via FedEx. I purchased the frosted LEDs bulbs and noticed no sign of the individual LED and the fixture plastic diffuser evened things out even more. Hope this helps. Jim
I have not tried LED fluorescent replacement lamps so I have no hands-on experience with their benefits. I am trying to get as much data on this choice, that many are making, to make my presentation on shop lighting complete.
First, some terminology so we know what each is talking about. The "lamp" is the replaceable light source. "Fixture" is what holds the lamp and provides current.
As I understand your situation you replaced the lamps in working T12 fixtures with LED lamps after some minor modification of the fixture. At 23 years old I presume the fixtures were powered with electronic ballasts, not magnetic.
The question is what was the benefit resulting from the replacement of the T12 lamp with an LED lamp?
I see what you're getting at, but there are many of those LEDs used in a single "bulb". A single LED is generally 3W or less, most used in an array to form a bulb are more on the order of 1W.
So, to compare a single diode to a fluorescent lamp is NOT apples to apples. I'm comparing bulbs--a T8 replacement LED will have a tape similar to the picture I posted above on one side of the tube, running the length of it. The back side of that tube has about a 1/4" strip that is opaque where the LED tape is adhered. When the LED tube is installed in a fixture, the opaque section is installed adjacent to the fixture.
A T5HO, T8, or T12 will cast light all around the tube, including between it and the fixture, and some of that is absorbed. Since neither the manufacturers of LED tubes nor fluorescent tubes can control what fixtures in which they are installed, the lumen output is likely independent of fixture.
I contend that any fixture will absorb more of a fluorescent tube's output than an LED due to the nature of their construction. So a 2200-lumen LED tube will effectively cast more usable (unabsorbed) light than a 2200-lumen (or somewhat higher) fluorescent tube. I've done many such replacements, and while I haven't had a light meter available to me, the consensus among the office staff where replacements occurred is that the LED tubes are brighter.
