OT - Moisture meter for hay baler

Re: OT - Moisture meter for hay baler *LINK*

Dick Coers

No experience, but easy to find. Scroll down to in line meters.


http://www.bestharveststore.com/Delmhorst-Hay-Meters/Delmhorst-FX2000-Package-Deluxe-10-Package-FX2000-H4-8302-831-315ACC-1986-Sensor-w-30ft-Cable-324Case-0065-p37.html

Re: OT - Moisture meter for hay baler

Philip Duffy

Terry, There is a rule of law in hay bailing; green hay never burns, only wet hay does. My DA taught me that one 75 years ago and it is still true. Philip

Why?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Such a measurement would be equivalent to measuring the moisture content of a piece of just assembled furniture.

I grew up on a farm and provided cheap labor for neighbors to put up their hay, more than I care to remember. I live on a farm now. I can not see what value there is in knowing what the moisture level of a bale of hay is. At that point what is done is done and there is nothing that can be done to "fix" a bale of wet hay. The data that is relevant is what is the moisture level of the hay about to be baled(determined by feel), what time of day is it and what is the weather forecast. This information, plus the intended use of the hay, will determine whether to bale it now or later.

Re: Why?

Terry Alexander

Yes, you have to have the correct moisture content in the hay while baling. But as the day (sometimes baling in the morning and/or night) the moisture in the hay changes...sometimes very quickly. Example, this spring I started baling at 6:00....30 minutes before sunrise. I was lucky if I could bale past 10:00. I end up stopping operations every 1/2 hour to ck the moisture content in the bale.

Most new balers have this built in with the moisture displayed in the cab.

Sorry for the long response, but didn’t know how to answer any other way.

T

Re: Why?

Dick Coers

I'd assume these big wound round bales are more susceptible to moisture issues than the little rectangular bales of the past. The rectangular bales had "end grain", the big bales are a continuous strip of "long grain". Some the big bales are also wound with a plastic protective sheet.

I am still puzzled

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Why are you not checking the moisture level of what is to be baled? Do as farmers have done for decades. Wander around the field and lift up the hay to feel its moisture content. In the evening you can feel the strain on the bailer change when dampness descends on the field. If it is going to rain soon you keep baling in spite. If feeding beef cattle it doesn't matter because they will eat anything. If selling the hay to horse enthusiasts there are better ways of making money.

I would think that an onboard moisture meter would drive one to distraction. Nothing about a hay field "ready" to bale is uniform, at least here in the east. Maybe they come with a computer to display a graph of the product with statistics on median, average, and standard deviation, control chart 2 sigma limits, etc. I just don't see how a numerical value of bales is going to be better than wandering the field and feeling the hay to see if most of it is ready, ready being defined by end use, weather and labor availability as much as actual moisture content. I don't think a meter is going to compensate for experience and may delay acquiring it. When in doubt ask a neighbor that has done it for decades.

Re: Why?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

A square bale of too-damp hay will mold. The rate of mold generation is much greater than diffusion rate out the "end grain". That said, when I bought hay it was more common to encounter moldy hay in round bales. But I think round bales are put up with less "quality control" because they are usually used for beef cattle that will eat anything.

The large round bales can be wound so tight that the interior is anaerobic. It is not uncommon to see round bales steaming the day after baling, at least in these parts. If damp, the interior ferments instead of molding. My sheep liked the fermented hay, but would rather starve than eat moldy hay.

Re: Why?

Barry Irby

I too grew up on a farm and have bailed more square bales than I care to remember. When I was 8 years old I was out in the fields driving the tractor very slowly for the adults to load the hay onto the wagon. I had a Kodak moment remembering my father and grandfather walking around the field lifting the hay, feeling it and sniffing it, and throwing it back down.

The round bales came along after I escaped the farm. I see them sitting around often in the edges of the fields with a flimsy looking piece of plastic on them. They have a feeding station for them. They put a bale in the middle of it and the cows reach in and eat.

I agree with Bill, I am having a hard time envisioning the value of the moisture meter.

Re: wrong!

C John Hebert

I had 50 head of Jerey's and can tell you they don't just eat anything. They won't touch moldy hay. Also...ever hear of "Hot bales". Wet center bales produce heat and some cause barn to burn. I don't know how many times I've broken a bale and felt the heat in the centers from putting up damp hay.

Re: wrong!

John K Jordan

I put thermocouples in some square bales that were too wet and monitored the heat - I wanted to know if they were getting hot enough where I needed to unload move them all out of my hay storage in a big hurry. These finally quit gaining heat at 140F. Terrible load of hay, but what should I expect for $750.

JKJ

I'm puzzled

Dick Coers

The guy asked for sourcing help, not woodworkers telling him he doesn't need one. If he's actively putting up hay, I'd say he knows what he is talking about, and is the most qualified to know what he needs!

I wrote;you wrote

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"If feeding beef cattle it doesn't matter because they will eat anything"

"I had 50 head of Jerey's "

I grew up on a dairy farm. For those unfamiliar with moos, Jersey only become beef cattle at the end of their productive years. Typically they are considered dairy. The nutritional requirements, and economics of nutrition, for a dairy cow lactating vs winter beef cattle maintenance are vastly different. Beef cattle in these parts stay outside and hungry. They happily eat even the weathered outside of round bales in January as well as anything they can pick out of the frozen pasture. .

That said the weather in the east includes unpredictable rain and we didn't always have perfect hay to feed.

Re: I'm puzzled

Barry Irby

You are correct sir! We did wander off into the weeds a bit. OTOH, If people have been successfully baling hay for generations without a moisture meter maybe the answer to his question is no where. If you don't need a meter you don't need a source. Perhaps I should be ignored on this topic, I got away from farming as fast as I could and did not even know this moisture sensing tech even existed for hay.

Re: I live in Maine

C John Hebert

can't get anymore east that that! LOL.......sure if you throw animals out with nothing else to feed on, they will eat anything to survive, unlike dairy that are relied upon for by products and depend on good hay especially in winter months when they can't go out that much, due to field grasses lying dormant and not reproducing.

Re: Why?

Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana

I have stacked more bales than I could count in my youth. In the 50's, I worked for several farmers that worked together to gather the hay crop. Each one contributed some equipment and when one field was baled they moved to the next farmers field.

I can certainly see the value to knowing the moisture content so as to prevent baling wet hay in square bales. I'm sure it prevents

some barn fires and moldy hay if you stop baling when the moisture is too high. Don't know much about round bales as I never worked with them.

Undeniable fact

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Nobody questioned the value of knowing the moisture content of hay before it is baled. This value plus anticipated weather and available labor is used to determine whether to bale. The question is how knowing the value after it is baled is more useful than knowing it before.

As a hay buyer, I would have been interested in a device that I could poke into a round bale to see at what moisture content it was baled at, for this value would have predicted mold potential. And obviously there is some market for onboard measurement because high end balers have this measurement as an option, as well as several others that strive to dumb down the process and raise the machinery price. And maybe that is the point, you can tell inexperienced labor to go bale until the moisture content reaches some target then stop. However, I remain puzzled why just feeling the hay in the wind row isn't sufficient or even best for most haying situations. Is the product being sorted by bale moisture content? That might be interesting concept on our fields that tend to not dry uniformly due to location or hay density.

Reading Terry's post again, and assuming there was no data error, he must be worrying about baling hay too dry (start at 6AM and stop at 10). In the worst drought ever in E. TN hay could not be baled at 6AM and we might be started at 10 AM only under ideal conditions. I have no experience baling whatever grass is being baled under these conditions. Clover and alfalfa are baled before the hay is too dry because the leaves are brittle and lost if too dry. But again just feeling the hay is adequate to make baling judgment, or watching for the cloud of leaves trailing the baler.

Re: Undeniable fact

Terry Alexander

Bill...I think you are communicating much better than me. You nailed it. I don’t need a meter when I start Baling. I can tell from the feel. You are correct. The problem (Especially here in hit, flat, and windy West Texas) is when to quit bale no because of the low moisture content.

HTH and thanks to all who replied.

Spontaneous Combustion

CJ in MPLS

and rot. I recall standing in the mow with my uncles as they put down rock salt to prevent mold. I have also seen smoldering piles of bales.

curiosity question

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

What are you baling that too dry is a problem? Dust, stem or leaf fracture? Given that 3 dry days in a row is a miracle around here, I have never experienced really dry hay to know how it would bale. If the weather was that dry there would not be grass growth to mow.

I always imagined this unimaginable state or really dry hay to be bliss. The risk of rain means even baling clover +/- optimum is the better tradeoff. Rain and labor drives our baling more than anything.

Re: curiosity questiont

Terry Alexander

I can go from 18% moisture to <12% in just a few hours. The purpose of an in-cab moisture meter is to tell me when to STOP baling. It can get so dry that the baler just crushes it to dust. You can see that coming off the top of the baler, but by that time you just have dust. Some balers will bale anything. Matter of fact my neighbor immediately to the West was baling at 4 in the afternoon. Set his baler and pasture on fire. Volunteer firemen stopped the blaze 100 yards from our pasture.

Lastly, I’m 68 years 9ld. 13 orthopedic surgeries....more than half on my knees. So getting in and out of the tractor while baling is not only wasting time, but it kills me.

Hope all this helps.

I never did hear anybody that has experience with 3rd party meters.

Sigh....guess I’ll repost on a Tractor forum. Let me tell you....they can be real turds sometimes.

T

Re: curiosity questiont

PC

Terry, try asking your question on talk.newagtalk.com. It's by far the best farming forum and for the most part, it reminds me of WC...very good and helpful people there.