About that BLO under cherry...

varnish chemistry

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The varnish doesn't contain any BLO, but it contains a substantial fraction of it's weight in some oil.

So once again, Bob Flexner was right. It matters not to put linseed oil under an oil based varnish.

Re: About that BLO under cherry...

John K Jordan

Great post! I use "danish" oil a lot on woodturnings as the sole finish (multiple coats) and have wondered about using it with other finishes.

BTW, decades ago I read that someone asked Albert Einstein if it upset him when he found out he was wrong about something. Paraphrasing, he replied, no - before I was wrong in my thinking now I will be right. I don't even know if it's true, but I always think of that when encountering differing opinions, suggestions, and criticism.

JKJ

Re: About that BLO under cherry...

Rum

I try to be wrong about something at least several times a week, otherwise I'm not trying new things enough

Great post.

Re: About that BLO under cherry...

John in NM

You have to try? I don't get any choice!

Re: About that BLO under cherry...

Bruce, a MN Galoot

“You have to try? I don't get any choice! ”

Not if you’re married, anyway

Re: About that BLO under cherry...

MartinMJ

I used to talk with Steve Mickley over on the Wood magazine forums. He was very pro P&L 38. He noted it was soybean based and did not yellow. When he closed his store in Cinci I had to buy my P&L 38 local. The paint store here had to order it for me as they told me P&L 38 was a slow selling product. My last purchase the counter person told me he thought the formulation was changed. It looked, brushed out and smelled the same.

I always felt, with nothing but my view of the final product, that the BLO brought out the figure on my Cherry projects. Maybe it accelerated the eventual darkening. Again, just my view of my older projects.

Our latest puppy chewed the corner of one of the cases in the Cherry TV entertainment center. I built all the pieces over 10 years ago. BLO followed by P&L 38. The fresh areas are quite light compared to the adjacent undamaged areas. The room is fairly dark most of the time. I had to clean out the interior areas a year ago to accommodate a move to a new cable provider. It seemed to me the insides had darkened about the same as the outside.

Joe, if you have two test pieces, might you put them in a sunny area for a few months, take some pictures and post back?

A friend said...

Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN

..."The more I am corrected, the more correct I will be!"

I often remember that statement--because I think we all struggle with wanting to be correct without being corrected. But being corrected is part of learning...

Jason

My favorite tee shirt....."question everything"

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It has a picture of a young child with an inquisitive expression and a caption that reads, "question everything". This philosophy seems especially useful in woodworking, though the phrase was directed toward scientific research and probably inspired by the famous Feynman lecture at the science teachers convention.

Over time, means and material change which renders what was once done potentially invalid, obsolete, or at least not the only way. The Internet has given voice to self proclaimed "experts" that advocate for "their way". Novices are in no position to know if "their way" is the only way, the best way, or even a reasonable way. Notions become "facts".

WoodCentral has been a valuable means for asking questions about conventional wisdom. Years ago I asked about using tool steel for woodworking tools. "Can't be sharpened", was the reply. True if you are wedded to Arkansas Stones. Not true with some modern abrasives, as Steve Elliot demonstrated with elegant experiments. The questions asked here have become inspiration for many such discoveries.

Unfortunately some feel threatened by questioning. It shuts down discovery. The person that was awarded the Nobel Prize for discovery of plate tectonics was asked what he was going to do next. "Try to disprove it", was the reply. Question everything.

This Forum seems to be the best for information supported by experimentation and data because people ask questions and do experiments to answer them with data.

Great stuff Bill....Where can I get the shirt?

Barry Irby

As an aside: When I was in the fifth grade I spent a lot of time staring at he world map above the chalkboard. I noticed if you slid the continents around, they would fit together pretty good. I mentioned it and got laughed at. Never mentioned it again. Maybe I was on to something.

A few years ago I was researching moisture flow through houses. Talked to a Research Architect at a university. I commented that as a Home Inspector when I saw wet attic it nearly assured you there was a wet crawl space or basement. He said they had set up monitoring in 657 houses with wet attics and found wet crawl spaces or basements 653 times. I said, "Well there you go!" He protested the results were not conclusive. My conclusion was a Research Architect will never reach a conclusion. The research and funding would be over.

Question Everything!

Dark BLO Finishes?

Don Stephan

"In the old days" the recommendation for a BLO finish was rub in once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and once a year for life. That's a lot of applications, each of which is going to increase the overall film thickness, however slightly. And each application may trap some dirt/grime if the surface was not thoroughly cleaned. I would not expect a single rubbed in thin coat of BLO to turn excessively dark over the years, especially if then topcoated with a more durable finish.

Print your own T-shirt, Barry

Kneale Brownson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E03uER3gdHY

Re: About that BLO under cherry...

Sgian Dubh

The result of your experiment doesn't really surprise me. I guess in the future you'll be able to save a little time when finishing pieces with oil based varnish! Slainte.

Re: Great stuff Bill....Where can I get the shirt?

Rum

If you're amused by such things (and I suspect both that you are and also that you already know this resource.. but anyway..) the articles at https://buildingscience.com/ are simply fantastic. I've learned way more than I need to (and way less than I'd need if I needed - just enough to be dangerously incorrect as they say) buy reading a lot of stuff there.

Re: My favorite tee shirt....."question everything

Stuart Johnson

There was a movie "QUESTION EVERYTHING" spray painted on a wall. Beneath it was sprayed by a different hand "WHY?" .

Why

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Anyone truly wondering why is encouraged to find Feynman's presentation to the science teachers on teaching science. It is at the end.

http://profizgl.lu.lv/pluginfile.php/32795/mod_resource/content/0/WHAT_IS_SCIENCE_by_R.Feynman_1966.pdf

On the other hand, many are content with the state of their current knowledge and want no responsibility for making it more accurate or complete.

The idea of questioning everything goes back well before Feynman. Daughter bought me a book written by the famous English scientist John Tyndall, no known relation. Geologists of the day had a theory of schist formation which John questioned. They were wrong and knowledge of geology advanced inspired by understanding the origin of flaky pie crusts. The book goes on to describe John's questioning of glacier movement, the origin of the color of water from glacier melt and why mountain tops are colder than lower elevation. This kind of person got us out of the stone age.

Re: Why

Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN

I think you missed the joke in Stuart's post.

Jason

Yup...

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I have been up at 4:30 AM for the past many days deer hunting till dark with a guest from PA. Today is a day of rest. Didn't even hear the fire engines last night. Got a complete night's sleep and got it with some help.

Re: Yup...

Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN

Hope you guys were able to harvest some!

When I opened my deck door yesterday at O-dark-thirty to light the smoker for the turkey, I immediately heard a loud rustling of leaves. When I looked up, a fair-sized doe was standing in my front yard watching me. She stayed there for quite some time while I went about my business, too. Sadly, the little .380 ACP I had in my pocket would have been sorely inadequate, especially at 10 yards...

Jason

lots of turkey theft in your area?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"the little .380 ACP I had in my pocket "

Or what were you guarding!

Tell me about turkey smoking. I have smoked cuts of pig but not a turkey.

Turkey smoking.....

Barry Irby

Hard to smoke turkey....the wrapper paper burns off before the meat ignites and the feathers taste like crap.

Oh! My Bad....In Turkey they smoke hookahs, sort of like a bong.

Re: lots of turkey theft in your area?

Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN

Just exercising my 2A rights, which I do almost all the time that I legally can. I work in a courthouse, and have to deal with road crew, some of whom have not been happy with the jobs they were assigned, nor the outcome of them not doing it. You never know when someone might look me up...

As for smoking turkey, there are lots of options out there. Don't go big--you'll end up with overdone legs and wings. Wet or dry brine for 12-24 hours first. In all the smoking I've done, I'm gravitating towards simple instead of throwing a bunch of different spices at stuff. Salt and brown sugar are great, maybe some pepper (I didn't use pepper on turkey, though). For a wet brine, half a gallon of water, half a gallon of apple cider, a cup of brown sugar and a cup of kosher salt. Line a large drink cooler with a trash bag, insert bird and brine in bag, then top off with ice and put the lid on. For a dry brine, just coat liberally with kosher salt and brown sugar. My wife stuffs the skin with a bacon/butter/herb purée.

For smoking, 30 minutes per pound is about right at 200-225ºF. I use an indirect wood fire, but that means the skin turns black and bitter (just another flavor to me--little bits of it mixed in with larger pieces of meat add another flavor dimension, IMO). Regardless of time, pull the bird from the smoke and wrap it in foil at about 155-160ºF internal temp, and let it rest for an hour before carving.

Jason

thank you....will try it