Paging Tom Dunlap: Tree problem

If you are open to other comments,

Dick Coers

That maple is short for this world. It evidently has enough nutrient flow with the remaining bark coverage, but it will become structurally unsafe in the near future. You don't mention the height, but with a little more rot, a heavy wind will likely be the demise. That said, my neighbor has a beech that looked like that years ago. I predicted it's demise 10 years ago and it's still standing. Luckily for it, the strong side is to the west to help with the prevailing winds. You can pick rotten material right from the trunk on it.

Re: Paging Tom Dunlap:  Tree problem

John K Jordan

I have a cherry tree that has been like that for decades. About 8 years ago I pulled out 8' of rotten heartwood and the rest is strong.

If the maple was my tree, I'd use a chisel and trim the bark back at the top where it's peeling, cutting through the edge of the living bark. That might keep moisture, insects, and fungus from residing under the bark and causing further deterioration of the live part. My tree books instruct to remove decayed, diseased, or damaged limbs and wood and trim around damage on the trunk so the tree has a clean edge to begin the repair.

JKJ, not an arborist

Re: Paging Tom Dunlap:  Tree problem

Tom Dunlap

Ouch!

The cause of the wound could be discussed for a long time. In the spring when the cambium is forming the bark is so susceptible to damage. String trimmer and ‘mower blight’ are high on the list. Another one is root damage while planting or from poor nursery practices

But the real issue is what to do. First, peel off any of the bark flakes. Get some coarse wood chips and make a ring around the tree. Chips from a tree service chipper are best. Much more living material in there that will become new soil. Don’t like any against the trunk. Think donut not volcano

The tree is generating a nice callous roll on the right. Seems like it’s healthy

As far as the future, based on what I can see, I wouldn’t be worried about the tree living. Within a block of your house you’ll find older and worse looking trees living just fine

The issue is what might happen if the tree fails. What is the target for failure? What is the chance that it will fail

God has taken the blame for tree failure for too long. There are tools and assessment techniques that can easily quantify and rate trees. Read up on TRAQ

There’s a real high probability that some crown reduction might be in order. This is NOT topping or gum dropping. CR work shorten limbs to reduce the load on a tree and main limbs. A whole tree pic would help

There are good arbos and there are saw slinging tree hacks. For consumers it’s really hard to find which you’re talking to. They can be Certified Arborists and still hacks. They might be using obsolete practices from the past too. If you’d like referrals let me know.

Wounds on trees are normal. Trees can grow and not fail with worse damage than I can see in your pics.

Get hold of me off line if you’d like.

More

Tom Dunlap

Trees don’t ‘heal’. They ‘seal’. Heal is biological and relates to growing new tissues to repair wounds. Seal is botanical and relates to how trees respond to wounds by isolating damage. New tissues grow on the outside and chemical walls come into play on the inside. Read up on CODIT and Dr Alex Shigo work

Writers using sloppy language like this make me suspicious. It warns me that the writer might not have a good understanding of tree wound reaction. The two things I mentioned aren’t new. I’ve known of them since early ‘80s

Think in ‘tree time’. This tree is young. Plenty of years ahead of it to be a part of your yard with proper care

stem strength would be my concern

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It is trees that look like this that blow down in our forest land. You have been advised that the tree may live for another 10 years, or 20, and I don't disagree. But, it is clearly weak and susceptible. I think all would agree that this tree has a shorter expected life span than a healthy replacement.

It is likely to blow down in the next strong wind that pushes on its weak side. And then you have a tree to dispose of on its schedule and a barren place. Perhaps because of our animal husbandry experience, we cull the weak and sick from the herd.

Because it is a young tree I would replace it. In a few years you will then have a healthy tree of respectable size growing there. The future owners of this property will benefit from the decision to replace.

I planted maple at our previous house and they all suffered this freeze damage on the south side. When it was obvious they would always be damaged trees I replaced them. Within a few years we had midsized healthy trees in their place. At our next house I wrapped the bases of maples in reflective insulation for 20 years until they got thick bark. So far no freeze damage to these trees but unprotected peach have suffered.

question

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It has been my limited experience that substantial root damage to one side of a tree results in retarded crown development on the damaged side. True?

If the tree is cut later this winter will a sugar maple sprout from the stump? I know red maple do, as well as many other timber trees. But no experience with sugar maple. If so, would a selected sprout give a replacement tree a head start compared to planting a new one? It will in spades in a clear cut reforestation. If Tom goes this route he will need to prune away all but the strongest sprout for several years until the tree decides one new stem is enough.

Personally, because I don't like nursing the weak that will never become fully productive, I would cut it and replace. If the stump sprouted I would groom a sprout. In a few years I would then employ survival of the fittest and remove the least desirable result from this experiment.

Another question

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Again, in my limited experience with orchard planting and some yard planting I find that the 10 year result of planting a small tree exceeds the result of planting a large tree. In both cases I prefer planting about 1/2" "liners", which are largely branchless nursery stock. How true is this observation?

When we last built I had available very cheap 2" red maple from a nursery that needed to move. Helper from this business dug and replanted in our yard several 2" trees, many feet tall. At the same time I planted several small trees from their stock(same variety), basically "sticks" about 4' tall. For several years the large transplants just survived while the small trees grew vigorously. In 10 years the small trees had more than caught up. At 20 years I can't tell much difference between them.

Even more. 😁

Tom Dunlap

Like all answers, especially Internet answers...it depends

Replanting May make sense

Crown reduction done properly has a solid track record

Nurturing stump sprouts works but the root systems can be problematic. Better to remove and grind out the stump

Bill, your experience with tree wraps should be thought about. No doubt you observed a result that’s favorable. Think of this though. Would you consider having a winter coat made from that same insulation? Not enough r value to moderate heat loss. There are very few calories of heat left in he tree on a cold winter night. Also. Eventually all trees in a sample area would have cracks. We know they don’t. Shigo and others have found that cracks start from a wound. Can’t hurt to wrap trees as long as the coats are taken off in the spring

I know you are a tree expert but....

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I have a lot of orchard experience. When the sun shines on the dark trunk in our sometimes 70 degree Februarys and two nights later it is 10 (to offer some example numbers; I don't know exactly what it takes) the part of the tree or large limb exposed to radiant heat of the sun dies. This heating will occur here in TN where the sun makes black stuff hot even in January, and much less so in MN where I don't recall feeling heat from sun in winter months.

Not a problem for all species for me. It is a problem for hard maple and peach, which is where I have had damage. The wrap isn't keeping in the tree heat, it is reflecting away the radiant energy of the sun. White paint works as well but doesn't look as well in June. The damage always occurs on the south side of the trunk or the top of scaffold branches of peah which fan out like an upside down umbrella.

My trees don't have trunk damage.

In forest regeneration after logging in the winter the stump sprouts overwhelm anything else in the neighborhood the following years. Not sure what the root issue you speak of but I have cut a lot of healthy timber that appeared generated from stump sprouts. The main problem is multiple stems.

Re: I know you are a tree expert but....

Tom Dunlap

Bill

I don’t want to come off as arguing. Just sharing nuances

Your orchard and woodland experiences and observations are different than why might be found in he urban forest. Trees grown as individuals respond differently.

Cracks can happen when intra cellular water freezes before it can be reabsorbed and become inter cellular. There’s a bit of antifreeze inside the cells. If the water goes out of the cell and freezes the ice crystals either crush or puncture live cells. Paint, tree wrap or Thinsulate might give the water a bit more time to go ‘back inside’

Check your email Tom... more PICS

Tim Greif - West of Chicago

Tom, I sent you an email to request your recommendations regarding an arborist in this area. I've also attached these same pics in the email as higher resolution files due to the file size limitations here.

I trimmed back all the loose bark, which was more than I realized. The first picture is the whole tree taken from the SE side. The next four pics are taken at roughly 90 degree increments going around the tree clockwise starting at the South side. I did this so you could see the extent of the bark damage in all four quadrants of the trunk. I also included a pic of the east side further up the tree where you can see the bark splits traveling quite a ways up, but still intact. And the last shot from the south showing the entire tree leaning a bit to the SE, as it has for a number of years.

Backstory (if this is of any significance): This tree started out as a volunteer seedling in a neighbor's garden from their sugar maple. I transplanted it to my yard in 2006 as a 50-inch tall sapling and kept it staked for a few years with a slit corrugated drain pipe around the base of the trunk to protect it from the bunnies. It has grown significantly over the years. It is now well over 30 feet tall, well above the Norway Maple in the parkway that was planted as a fairly mature tree in 1989. The tree used to be straight as an arrow vertical, until a severe wind storm bent it over and it took it's current permanent lean to the SE about 8-9 years ago.

For what it's worth, all this damage didn't start to appear until about mid-december last winter. Started out as just a bulge in the bark and sort of grew in size over the winter.

Tom, I want to thank you for your excellent advice and insight. And I appreciate the input from all the others as well. This has been a cool exchange of science, experience and opinions. I continue to be amazed at the collective knowledge here.

Thanks again

.

What a color!

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It would be grand to tissue culture some children from these genes.

I thought the bark looked like a red maple?

I see why you would like to keep it but if it was mine it would be replaced. Next year it will just be a bigger weak- stemmed tree.

Tree response

Tom Dunlap

It looks like the tree has grown an adventitious root on the left side of the wound. A really amazing response trees have for living. That’s good

The multi leader structure is terrible. Lots of codominant leaders. It looks like it might be a real challenge to prune the tree in a way that would reduce the loads on their attachments.

Tree Risk Assessment is a way of scoring a tree. It works like other risk assessments. The target of a potential failure is a high value score. That tree out in the woods has no target so low value. High traffic area and likelihood of injuring a person would mean a high score

There are ways of mitigating the risks. Crown reduction seems the most likely. The catch is that it would probably mean that you’ll commit to pruning every other year or so for a few years. You’ll have to decide the value of the cure

Just based on looking at the pics on my phone, not enlarged on my monitor, I’d lean towards planting a new tree now and plan on removing this one

I out the word out for a good arbo in your area