Scraping wood for finish?

don't chase current fashion

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"Any other suggestions would be tremendously appreciated. "

Build for customers that are delighted to receive what you want, and are able, to make. Let the others face the price of quality factory furniture. If they are not interested in quality help them find the nearest Ikea.

It is possible to reproduce furniture built with hand tools 200 years ago because, other than more limited wood availability, we have access to the same tools and techniques that were used then. It is near impossible to reproduce modern factory furniture and a fools errand to try. The machines, and finishing materials and techniques, are not available to the home shop.

When family wants furniture I say up front what I will and can build. I am not so desperate for work that I'll build something that I will not enjoy building, or don't know how. The price of the currently fashionable furniture of their desires is a strong bargaining element to reach compromise.

Crappy looking stuff seems to be the current fashion. I scraped an oak floor because I didn't want to risk someone screwing it up by flawed sanding. My scraped floor is near flawless except for subtle hints that it was scraped. I'll bet the crappy looking floors and furniture fashion and Jeans with holes in the knees will pass in time and this misused looking stuff will be thrown out.

Re: don't chase current fashion

Barry Irby

You have hit on it. I want to scrap it but very subtlety.

Re: Scraping wood for finish?

Dick Coers

Wire brushing or a light sandblasting may provide what you want. It will remain fairly flat and glasses might not be tippy compared to pattern scraped.

Plane it

Ellis Walentine

Grind a modest camber on a smooth plane or jack plane and hand plane the surface. Hand scrapers already have whatever curve you want built in. Just bend 'em. But, they won't take off appreciable material in a reasonable amount of time.

Ellis

Patina is created by aging ....

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

... and not by damaging wood with chains, scrapers, hammers, teeth or other methods of destruction.

I shake my head when someone bashes up a piece of furniture to make it look older. Do you treat your furniture roughly at home?

It is an art to get the distressed look with paint, but not everyone wants to paint furniture. If your DIL wants painted furniture, then there are a million videos on the Internet showing how this is done.

What I am assuming that she wants is to give the wood an aged look, that is, to take the "newness" away. This is easy to do ... just wait several years, or leave the piece out in the sun .... the West Australian summer sun will do this in a couple of weeks!

Or do it chemically. Vinegar-and-disolved iron is a favourite brew. This does darken oak quite quickly. There are prepared mixes you can purchase, such as Rust-Oleum Varathane Weathered Wood Accelerator.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: don't chase current fashion

Bruce, a MN Galoot

I don’t know about the jeans with holes, Bill. 35 years ago, my wife and I were in Washington National airport (now Reagan) and I saw a very attractive young woman wearing a floor length mink coat and jeans with holes. We haven’t progressed very far.

Re: If you are building for a client ...

Hank Knight

If you are building for a client, build what the client wants. If you're building for yourself, build what you want. It's fine to explain to the client the pros and cons of their choices; but in the end, the client is the client. It's their call. If you can't do that, don't build for clients.

Too restrictive....

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"It's their call. If you can't do that, don't build for clients. "

Only true if the builder is in a situation where for what ever reason they have to build what the client wants. Otherwise it is a mutual negotiation leading to what each party will be satisfied with, or you walk away. I have built lots of stuff for family, friends and paying clients. And I have chosen not to build stuff, especially "reproduction contemporary factory furniture". I am not so in need of pleasing someone with a hand made piece that I will not be pleased building it.

My way or the highway? Interesting call Bill

Re: Too restrictive....

Steve jenkins

Been self employed building custom furniture for 36 years now. I’ve always thought that I don’t have to like it , the client does. I just have to build it well.

Depends how you are "paid"

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

You folks building for payment in money don't take jobs that don't pay enough. In my case, building for family, I am paid with a combination of the joy of building and the satisfaction of the recipient. Just like you folks that are building for payment in dollars, if there isn't enough payback for me I don't take the job. We are no different.

I took some leather and my ax to the shoe store last week to have a sheath stitched. I was patiently told the shop had enough shoe work to do and they would not make the sheath. After some discussion it was agreed that if I cut out the leather and made the folds the shoe man would stitch it. Conclusion: they stitch for dollars; they don't design sheaths even though they could. These decisions are ubiquitous in business...... and hobby. Only the payment details differ.

Re: Too restrictive....

David Yoho

Hank said - "It's their call. If you can't do that, don't build for clients. "

Bill said - "Only true if the builder is in a situation where for what ever reason they have to build what the client wants. Otherwise it is a mutual negotiation leading to what each party will be satisfied with, or you walk away. I am not so in need of pleasing someone with a hand made piece that I will not be pleased building it."

I agree with both comments mostly. However, during my years of building for pay I learned a few things. Early on I was having a conversation with a local furniture builder that told me a story about a build he did for a customer that wanted their newly built oak cabinets painted white. Finding that a terrible idea, I asked what he did. He told me it wasn't what he wanted or liked that mattered but rather what the paying customer wanted was. That was a real eye opener to this young inexperienced woodworker!

I found it important when meeting a new client for the first time to listen to their ideas and discuss their options in an effort to lead them in a direction that satisfied both of us. This worked most of the time. The only times I turned away work was either when I was so busy I was already backed up for months and someone couldn't wait or when the request was for high end work at Walmart pricing.

I guess I was lucky enough to work mostly for folks that knew my work and liked it enough to have me do some for them. I might not have liked what I was building every time but I was always pleased to be in my shop doing what I loved, which was working wood. In the end it was pleasing to see the client's pleasure with the completed work along with them handing over the final payment.

Not what he said at all...

John in NM

"...it is a mutual negotiation leading to what each party will be satisfied with, or you walk away."

That is exactly right, and in no way "my way or the highway". It is the foundation of all business arrangements - just like restaurants expect you to order from their menu at their set price, even a custom woodworker may have a "menu" of sorts. Maybe he doesn't like building Greene and Greene stuff.... maybe he doesn't build Federal period stuff.

Maybe he doesn't want to do a scraped finish - I once turned down a job grain painting, just not a skill I wished to learn, and the client found someone who wanted the work.

Re: Would your DIL know if...?

Jesse Cloud

you substituted poplar for the QSWO before you added the 'patina'?

What a shame to waste good wood!

Ha!

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

My wife wants me to throw away my jeans with knee holes or other perforations - "You're not seriously going out wearing that, are you?"

My reply ; "Do you have any idea how much these would cost new?"

Re: Would your DIL know if...?

Barry Irby

This wood came from a 42" diameter white oak that had the audacity to fall on one of my rental houses. To be fair, it did have the good manners to wait until the tenant who had lived there for 12 years moved out and about a week later, with the assistance of a microburst storm, it attacked. I had a local company quarter saw it and now I am getting even with it. Don't be crushing my house and expect to get away with it unscathed!

My poplar on the other hand was the victim of a highway widening project.

The DIL sent me pictures of tables made in England from old repurposed oak beams. So I am not certain she would know the difference But she just produced my grandson and namesake so if it's oak she wants it's oak she gets.

Re: Scraping wood for finish?

John in NM

I once worked for a guy who was very good at non traditional finishes. I didn't think I was going to like them, but mostly I did.

One he did on an ash door we built (very contemporary, not traditional) was to first attack the wood with a wire brush on a grinder - we actually did that, he just told us to, it was not fun. But it wore down the softer areas and left the denser parts high and rounded over a bit. Then came the really not fun part, sanding all the rough edges smooth. The end result looked like the shape of driftwood, but not with the washed out grey color and all the cracks. It worked really well for looking old, yet not worn out.

Something like that, followed by fuming or ferric acetate (more aggressive than fuming) for color? More aggressive than scraping, but ends up being smoother around the texture.

Re: Would your DIL know if...?

Jesse Cloud

Good call! You should have led with that last sentence - that seals the issue!

Re: Actually ...

Hank Knight

That's pretty much what I said.

"It's fine to explain to the client the pros and cons of their choices; but in the end, the client is the client. It's their call. If you can't do that, don't build for clients."

The process is a give and take: advice from the maker, then a decision by the client about what he/she wants and finally a decision by the maker about whether he/she can or is willing to make what the client wants. I think we're all saying the same thing. The client is going to get what the clients wants. The only question is whether the maker is going to take the commission. In reality, however, if a maker repeatedly turns down commissions because they don't suit his ethic, he won't make commissions very long.

Re: Scraping wood for finish?

Hank Knight

You get the same wire brush effect by sand blasting. The sand wears away the soft wood and leaves the hard wood proud and rounded. It's a mess, but it works very well.

Re: Actually ...

John in NM

Well, I was referring to what Bill said - it wasn't "my way or the highway".

But you are right, we are all basically saying the same thing. My view (and Bill's I think) is that the client's desires may be more fluid than most people realize, and they are often amenable to suggestions that make the builder's life a bit easier.

Re: Scraping wood for finish?

John in NM

We sandblasted patterns in glass at that shop too - what a job that was! Never thought to try sandblasting the wood, but I have wondered if it would have worked as well. Good to have an answer, that's what I will try if I ever want that effect.

Re: An aside

Hank Knight

The last time I did any sandblasting, I used a pair of safety goggles that had ventilation holes in the side pieces. I never thought the sand particles would come in the SIDE, but they did. I spent a miserable night and a couple of hours in my ophthalmologist's office the next morning while he carefully picked out each tiny grain. Fortunately no permanent injuries, but I learned to use fully sealed goggles with a sand blaster.

Bury it in the back yard for a year