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Sawing the big walnut tree

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Sawing the big walnut tree

#1

Sawing the big walnut tree

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Recall we recently posted a picture of a large walnut we cut.



The big walnut had grown up through some thick brush and then its top blew out at about 14’ . At this point it branched out like a bush into large limbs, but with one leader continuing upward for another 10’ before it branched again, then continued on with one crooked leader. The tree was cut at 12’ to yield a 23” prime log, the multitude of crotches cut out in a 2’ section for the bowl turners, then a 10’- 18” log with two small branches midway and finally an 8’ log with some complicated branching midway.

The small section on the front of the trailer is an ash crotch. We were successful holding it on the carriage and it sawed some nice crotch figure which I will veneer after it is dry.





The tree’s history suggested the 12’ log would be knot-free almost to its center. The other logs were a crap shoot. Sawing on this tiny band mill, and sawing for someone’s personal woodworking needs, required a different sawing strategy than sawing on a large circle saw mill. We decided to make one cut to make a flat surface that would stabilize the log. The log was then turned 180 degrees and sawed straight through as 4/4 and 5/4 lumber. Better than expected, the log yielded more than 300 bdft of clear lumber except for the cut through the center of the tree. Once the sun light interacted with the wood it became an attractive chocolate brown color.

To my surprise, the 10’ log yielded all FAS lumber except one #1 Common board in the center. (because of the exceptional width of the boards 2+ cuttings were allowed to meet the grading standard, which cut away the two knots at the middle of the boards. )

The uppermost 8’ log was interesting. It was miserable to saw because of its complex shape. We took a chance on orienting it on the carriage and sawed away. Its crotches yielded some nicely figured wood. The crooked last 4’ was knot-free and yielded some arty curved pieces that would make some dandy hall tables.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#3

Sawing short pieces

John K Jordan

Great looking log and wood!

"Sawing on this tiny band mill, and sawing for someone’s personal woodworking needs, required a different sawing strategy than sawing on a large circle saw mill. We decided to make one cut to make a flat surface that would stabilize the log. The log was then turned 180 degrees and sawed straight through as 4/4 and 5/4 lumber."

That's the way I usually saw on my small manual Woodmizer (no hydraulics), easier for me to turn and align since I do it all by myself by hand with cant hooks. Walnut slabs are great sawn this way since it's so stable.

Holding shorts is a challenge since my mill has supports only every 4'. I fasten two 8/4 planks or 2x10 PT boards with lag screws to make an "L" shaped fence, set that on the mill, then use a single clamp to hold the shorts securely against the fence. When the support gets sawn away too much I move down to the next clamp or move the fence. (Maybe you did the same.)


Very quick to cut bowl blanks with two flat surfaces


A few more cuts give squared up blocks for drying. These ambrosia maple bloacks were for our club wood auction. They sell for more if the buyer can see the all surfaces.


JKJ

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#4

good suggestion

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I will remember the "L" bracket if I ever have to saw a short again. As it turned out we slowly sawed one face of the crotch while I pined it against one dog with a peavey point. The crotch was long enough to bridge two horizontal carriage supports but only aligned with one dog. When turned down on this flat surface the weight of the crotch held it in place for the rest of the sawing.

"easier for me to turn and align since I do it all by myself by hand with cant hooks."....We only had on hand one strong youth, and it took 4 of us to turn the big log. The little mill didn't have tall enough posts on the back of the carriage to turn against. We had on hand two short handled cant hooks and I brought a short cant hook I use for handling fire wood longs and a long Peavey. The youth on the peavey saved the day in turning.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#5

The lumber stacked

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.


I didn't get involved in the stacking. The owner of the lumber, Phil Smith, asked me to post a picture of the lumber stack that he sent me. Instead of conventionally stacking in layers several feet wide, the lumber from each log got stacked in a separate vertical stack. This approach will enable better air circulation which may suppress mold formation in our current summer conditions.

The lumber was sprayed with borate. Having cut the logs in the spring when the stored energy had been converted to sugar makes this lumber prime bug food. The borate should suppress bugs and mold. Next year when this stack of lumber has lost more than 1000 pounds of water it will be ready to use.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#6

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

Hank Knight

Bill, that looks like wonderful walnut. Are you going to air dry or kiln dry it?

EDIT: Your last post answered my question.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#7

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

Score! Congrats. Let me know if you need my shipping address. ;-) T.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#8

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

Paul Blackwell

My sister and brother-in-law had a farm in New York, and there was a huge walnut tree out near the barn. Lightning struck it, and killed one large limb. Amish farmers have moved in the area, and were the best neighbors one could hope for. My sister mentioned to Joseph, her immediate neighbor, that they were thinking of having the tree cut as they feared it might die and blow over on the barn. She looked out one morning, and the yard was filled with Amish men come to cut the tree down. They felled the tree, and limbed and stacked the wood. Joseph has a band saw mill capable of passing a 42" log through the opening, and the butt log was so large that we had to cut slabs off the log to allow it to be sawn. The tree yielded close to 1000 board feet of generally prime lumber of which I was the lucky recipient. The Amish men would not accept payment, and the only cost to me was for the band sawing. The wood has been largely used up with only two or three boards left.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#9

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

So jealous.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#10

Nice Score

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

I have two 29" walnuts waiting for take-downs and a 26" white oak to be harvested. The oak will likely be a crane job to avoid the felling fracture. They will be sawn on site, Timbor'd, and stacked for drying. The oak will be quartered at 5/4 but the walnuts will be flitch sawn to 5/4 and 12/4

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#11

Mark...crane in NJ

Tom Dunlap

Mark Mandell...

If you need a tree service with a crane let me know. Several friends of mine in NJ have cranes are excellent arborists

Have you see the knucklebooms with saw grapples? Amazing what they can do without putting a climber in the tree

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#12

Have One

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

crane, that is, but also have several arborist friends who can handle the situation.

Had the crane (60 ton) in after the February/March storms. Operator was an artist.

Thanks anyway ;)

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#13

Re: Mark...crane in NJ

John K Jordan

Have you see the knucklebooms with saw grapples?

Is that the monster machine that grabs the trunk, uses a big circular caw blade to cut the tree near the ground, then swings around and sets it down? I saw those in operation once when 4-wheeling in the mountains. Wow, what an operation and SO quick.

JKJ

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#14

(Message Deleted by Poster)


Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#15

Kneale Brownson

Link goes to a music album


Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#16

Ooops...wrong link...grapple saw *LINK*

Tom Dunlap

The music on the vid is a bit much...I turn off the sound


Knuckleboom Grapple Saw

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#17

Very Cool

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Way safer than putting a guy or 2 up a tree.

My issue becomes cost. A crane job is 2K minimum, and I can buy a lot of KD QSWO for 2 grand.

It's likely I'll just have to chance the felling fractures.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#18

PS?

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Hey Tom,

If I take it down while the vascular system is still operating in Summer mode, I'm hoping the trunk will be a bit more flexible and resistant to a fracture when I drop the stick. Any experience with that?

TIA

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#19

Re: PS?

Tom Dunlap

Thats valid but might not gain you much flex in a tree like walnut.

When I wanted to reduce the hard impact for a fell I'd use a technique I called 'ripping the hinge'

I'd have an appropriate rope choked at a point that Iknew wouldn't break. My biggest rope was 3/4" double braid but I rarely used that. Mostly 5/8 DB

I'd cut an extra wide 'open face' notch...not a typical flat bottom/angled top/ one-third diameter/depth face. You might know about open faces...if not, wtcha few vids.Much safer and more control.

I'd have the rope run through a block on a sling which would be choked at the base of a solid tree in as close to perfect alignment with the fall. Then the rope goes through the block and off ninety degrees or so from the fall line. sometimes I'd use my front end loader or truck to pull. Most times I'd setup mechanical advantage with blocks in 3 or 4:1.

Make the face cut.Tension the pullover rope.

Start the back cut. Keep tension...just taking slack, not really pulling hard enough to tip the tree.

Too much pull will lead to a barber chair...super dangerous!!!

What I want to achieve is leaving a nice fat even hinge. Then start a pull.Not enough to break the hinge. Keeping the hinge wood attached dissipates energy. Using an open face keeps the tree attached to the stump until the trunk is parallel with the ground. No fly swatter drops. No dramatic crunches

The hingewood is used as a tension to hold the tree up. Pulling gently leaves that energy contained inside the canopy. Nice gentle pull to initiate the fall

This isn't a basic skill though. Gotta have someone with a soft hand on the power doing the pulling. If they pull too hard too quick they might break something.

When the branches hit they'll fracture and crumble. That's where you want the energy to go. If a traditional face is cut it will close before the trunk is parallel withthe ground. Then the hinge breaks the the tree slams...fractures...you just turned a log into nice firewood

Take pics...or no one believes you cut the tree!

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#20

Yeah

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

I'll pass this along to the guy who cuts this tree. Way out of my league!

Thanks, Tom

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#21

Felling fracture, what's this?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Unsure what you are worried about. Never heard this term used before. The tree breaking when it hits the ground? An oak breaking or splitting....seems unlikely in a sound oak, no matter the location of the tree. Seems unlikely in any sound tree. I have put beech that I was trying to be rid of across gulleys and not had them break.

Hardwood branches make an effective cushion. I can't recall ever seeing a busted oak on a logging job, even hollow ones of mature size. And even if whatever felling fracture occurs, how much wood would be damaged relative to the cost of avoiding it?

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#22

I See It

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

all the time in felled oaks in my area. Results in a fracture through the pith that can be small or extend out through the heart wood. Rare in blow-downs, however.

Subject tree is a very nice white oak with 6 or 7 10' clear wood sections that, if handled correctly, will produce a large stock of QS Grade 1 lumber. A felling fracture will limit the amount of QS yield, so I'm trying to avoid it. I actually have several near trees that may act as controls for the fell with Tom's method. Have an arborist coming this afternoon.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#23

more confused

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I have been around logging most of my adult life and even cut timber one summer. I have never heard this term nor have I ever heard of anyone worrying over something happening to degrade lumber from putting an oak tree on the ground. Nor have I observed anyone cutting timber take any precautions to eliminate what ever felling fractures are. The only felling degrade I have seen anyone worry about is pulling splinters. I hope you can understand my confusion that you are worrying about something I have never heard of anyone else worrying about.

What exactly is felling fracture? You speak of cracks through the pith. The centers of trees always crack, more or less. I have certainly seen lots of fractures in the center of trees. I have always thought them to be a result of growing stress relieved by bucking the logs, or drying stress, not ground thumping. The big walnut we recently sawed developed a crack upon standing for a few days. No problem, we just sawed the boards parallel to it and captured it in one plank.

It is not uncommon to see these cracks develop over time. Veneer logs are often pinned on the ends with plastic devices to control the problem. I have seen ash split clear in halves, but never heard it attributed to anything to do with ground thumping.

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#24

Re: Felling fracture, what's this?

Tom Dunlap

Seen fractures and cracks from slamming trees

Not often but it happens

My 40 plus years were spent mostly in urban trees. I did some Lot clearing in the woods too. No reason not to exercise so caution rather than just slamming the tree. Balancing the effort with expediency

Besides seeing the trees I felled myself I've seen mountainous piles of debris at the tree dump over the years. A lot can be learned there.

Logging and urban forestry/Arborculture are cousins. Sometimes distant cousins

Mark...would you let me know who you're working with to donthe cutting? Ask if he knows me. It would be an odd

Chance that we know each other

Re: Sawing the big walnut tree

#25

Re: Felling fracture

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Lost 6 large trees including two 30+" black oaks in the March storms. These were otherwise healthy trees with crowns in the 100' range. Sectioning them out showed both the trunks of the oaks and one of the ashes were fractured from about 3' above the base for a good 20' up. It made clearing them a bit dicey as it was easier to jam the saw when they flexed; lots of wedges used.

Tom,

Will do. Have two guys I work with so not sure who'll be doing it. Of course, if the township doesn't approve my shop building, the tree will hopefully stand for another 80 years. ;)

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