OT Odd electrical question???

Re: OT Odd electrical question???

John McGaw

I would really wonder about that also. 240V microwaves are real rarity (in North America anyway) so that seems to be a non-starter. Even if the two breakers were feeding a 240V socket it would take some seriously screwed up wiring to do what you are seeing since the breakers would at least need to be side-by-side even if they weren't the proper coupled pair. I'd say, get that electrician out there ASAP and have him/her find out in detail what is doing on before there is a fire or someone gets fried.

Another thought: could it be that one or both of the breakers are of the in-panel GFCI variety? My mom had some of those in her house and they were a horrible problem sometimes -- tripping when they felt liked it with little or no provocation. Example: turning on a power tool in the man-shed would sometimes trip a GFCI feeding the bathroom (there was no direct connection involved and the wiring to the shed was AFAIK done correctly). More than once I had to talk my step-dad through opening the breaker panel and re-setting when things went pear-shaped.

I am not an electrican nor did I sleep in a

Dustmaker Mike

Holiday Inn last night.

I would be wondering if the breakers are old and when one trips it puts enough load on the other for a ? and it pops also.

I have seen breakers go bad before and they do some strange things

GFI came to mind also

Re: OT Odd electrical question???

Mark Nowicki

What kind of breakers, single pole or double pole?

The Idiots are plugging it it into the same plug?

Is it what we call in Canada a counter plug, where the plug is fed by a 4 conductor cable (black, red, white, ground? Those are usually connected to a double pole breaker, but often the doityourself yahoos will use two single pole breakers to save 50 cents.

Time to open up the panel.

I was wondering about that too...

John in NM

Do the two breakers share a common? Not sure that would cause both to trip, but I've seen some weird stuff on shared commons if the hots aren't on opposing phases.

Re: I was wondering about that too...

Mark Nowicki

What might cause both to trip is that the tab on the hot side was not broken off or broken off improperly or something is wrong with the plug.

It is time for a more thorough look by a licensed electrician.

Re: OT Odd electrical question???

Walter Ahlgrim

This is a stretch but it is possible, the renter somehow acquired a restaurant microwave they are operates on 240V. Then they made a cord that plugs into 2 different 120 V outlets if the outlets happen to be wired to different buss bars in the panel the microwave will get 240 and run. Generally the even number breakers are on one buss and odd numbers are on the other buss. Restaurant microwave are big and heavy they are unlikely to hide it before calling, the cheater cord will likely be hidden. Some people also play this game to power dryers.

Are the breakers that are blowing 20 amps? (Is the wiring to the kitchen up to today’s code? (2 different 20 amp circuits for the kitchen outlets and separate circuits for the refrigerator, dishwasher, disposal.)

Did you try operating the same load they were when the breakers popped?

Walta

Re: OT Odd electrical question???

Barry Irby

I bought this house at foreclosure from the bank of a builder who lost it. He had built it for a rental and the people in are the only ones that have lived in it for about 16 years since it was new. They are cheating on Section 8 by having ten or eleven people packed into a three bedroom house. According to the rules there should only be 6 people in a three bedroom house. I'm sort of caught in the middle. If I complain to Section 8 they will move them out and I will be left with sprucing up the house to re-rent it and no telling who I will get as a tenant. Or I can just let them continue to beat the crap out of the house and keep collecting the rent.

I own 9 rental properties. I get more calls about this one than the other eight combined.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Re: I was wondering about that too...

John in NM

I misunderstood the first time - the case I've seen is when you have two independent circuits running on the same common but not connected to a ganged breaker. They aren't necessarily going to the same box. As you probably know already, the ganged breaker is used to ensure that they are on opposite phases, and the common is only carrying the imbalance between the two opposed loads.

When the two breakers are on the same phase, strange things happen when one of the breakers trips, but I'm certainly not smart enough to know why. Just seen it a couple times.

They are not on same leg in the panel

Tim Greif - West of Chicago

Those two breakers are on different legs of the 220 feed to the panel (see diagram). I have no idea why both breakers would trip on a 120 volt load unless by some strange condition, you have an ungrounded neutral. I've seen it, but rarely, and it can result in all kinds of strange behavior. Let us know what you discover.

I'm no saint, but jeez

Gary Smyth

Be careful what you admit to in any social media There are some derogatory terms to portray rental owners of what you described. If anything goes wrong y0u might be in a mess you wish never happened. Better left unsaid.

And what other app you are using that keeps track 

Perhaps I over stated their lack of competence....

Barry Irby

You be the judge...

It turns out that the time I went there to reset the breaker the problem was they plugged a number of curing irons into the kitchen outlets and tripped that breaker. Then they moved them to the living room outlets and tripped that breaker.

Months later they plugged a defective microwave into the kitchen outlets and tripped it and just to be sure they took it in the living room and tried again. I sent the handyman and he reset the breakers.

A few days later, They repeated the process all over again, tripping the breakers again.

The tenant on the lease told me "the baby's daddy can explain what happened" and put him on the phone. After considerable hemming and hawing, his explanation was "the kitchen and living room outlets have gone down again."

By the next phone call I knew about the microwave. They were baffled it had a problem even thought it had blown the breaker four times. They claim they threw it away.

You decide. Is this an ID 10 T problem?

Section 8 should give all the beneficiaries of our largess some training in operating a house. I rent them the house and am required to give them "quiet possession". Not sure that means constant repairs for what amounts to willful damage.

Now that I understand the two breakers did not trip simultaneously I am somewhat relieved.

Tenants....

Hoa in Alameda

A friend of mine, a real estate agent, has some rental units.

She has a form. When a tenant reports a problem, she asks the tenant to fill out the "description" field of the form. She (or the repair person) fills out the "cause/solution" field of the form. Everyone signs it and everyone has a copy.

At the end of the form is a clause essentially saying: This problem is/is not (choose one) due to wear and tear. If the same problem happens again due to the same cause, the tenant/landlord (choose one) will pay for the repair.

I believe that cuts down a lot of calls.

Re: Perhaps I over stated their lack of competence

Rum

This isn't what happened to you in this case...

But I could plausibly see this happening in some fault scenarios with a shared neutral (also called a "multiwire circuit", "multiwire branch circuit", "split phase shared neutral" or "edison circuit") which are (or at least were) somewhat common in kitchens especially for microwave circuits (although most commonly shared with other kitchen circuits like disposal or above counter outlets).

It would be unusual/unsafe/a code violation if they were using single pole breakers without them being tied in an obvious way.

Just something else to be aware of

https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/71652/what-is-a-multiwire-branch-circuit

https://inspectapedia.com/electric/Multi-Wire-Electrical-Circuits.php