Made it to the MET...finally!

Re: Made it to the MET...finally!

Brian Holcombe

Incredible stuff, I like the Japanese section and Asian wing as well. They have so many tsuba’s, swords and so much woodwork.

Re: Made it to the MET...finally! *LINK*

Mark Hennebury

That's a fine piece of work for sure.

There are still a few people making that stuff today; Erik Jacobsen is one that i know of. Its worth taking a look around his website to see how its done.

Website link

question....

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"I might check my stash of mahogany to see if I can throw together a copy of this next weekend"

Who do you have in mind for your Cartouche model? (this was clearly a guy piece)

Re: Made it to the MET...finally!

Brian Holcombe

Sorry for the double reply but wanted to comment with some speculation.

Often the dovetail joints inside the case of 18th century furniture were done in a hurry, and the drawers are loose. However that is not always the case, I recall a documentary on Chippendale in which the built in casework that featured what we'd certainly consider piston-fit drawers that had further elements in them that were equally tight fitting. The person detailing the work opens the drawers and details their contents and additional fittings.

I'd imagine on this level of work the internals are equally up to snuff, meaning the drawers fit tightly and the joinery work is accurate (but not machine accurate). Certainly the carving work is exceptional so it was obviously done for a client very much willing to pay for exquisite.

drawer fit

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"the drawers are loose. " I presume you mean loose fitting not that the joints were loose. It is no harder to make a drawer that fits properly that one that doesn't. So unlike functional dovetails, there is little cost advantage to make a drawer that is loose, or binds. It is mostly a matter of accurate measuring than any complication of execution. For years I have studied drawers in antique shops any chance I get. I find them well fit. A well fit drawer works well and any user of the drawer can tell if the drawer works well. I presume any shop that survived had to make drawers that fit/worked well.

[edit to clarify, I don't see any correlation between showiness of dovetails and practical working of drawers in the typical antiques I see]

Worn drawers are a different issue.

I don't know a definition of "piston fit". This metric has little meaning. A drawer that is well fit doesn't rack and then bind as it is closed. Worse is a drawer that sticks from lack of clearance, a fatal flaw in drawer operation. I suspect all the furniture with sticky drawers was discarded a century ago.

I condition my case pieces in a humid environment before final finish. Occasionally a sticky drawers is revealed which gets fixed before delivery. I hope to have no risk of a drawer finding itself in a humid environment and sticking in the life of the piece.

It is the gallery furniture where I typically see poorly fit drawers and doors.

Re: drawer fit

Brian Holcombe

I wrote that too quickly, what I meant to say is that it is commonly assumed that the drawers were all cut loose with fast dovetails. I think this often is the case in everyday work of the 18th century, at least it seems to be the case in a lot of what I have come across in typical work of the period.

Much like now, exceptional work is done accurately and I’m making the leap that a case like this would have tightly fit drawers and decent enough appearing dovetails much in line with what I’ve seen from Chippendale and 18th century French work.

I agree that many subjective terms are subjective, in fact the words loose and tight are largely meaningless as well but I’m typically without feeler gauges when I look at antiques so it is very hard to describe such things in real terms.

I’ve fitted a number of pistons so the moniker has meaning in my eyes. I’m happy to use the term and build to a piston fit, my drawers don’t stick but my post wasn’t about my work or approach to it, just some comments and so forth to spur on the topic of this excellent work in the OP.

My secret hope is that your furniture begins being sold in galleries. :p

Piston fit

Brian Holcombe

I just checked one of my cases, .031” clearance. So larger than recommended piston clearance.

They don’t stick and have been through a full cycle of humidity do far,

Funny you should come up with that value

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I do measure drawer side clearance on antiques or estimate it. 1/32+/- comes up again and again on what I see and that is the target I shoot for. I have a long 0.030 feeler stick(gauge or whatever it's called) and as a check run it around the drawer ends when I think I have a fit about right.

I believe anyone 'Piston fitting" an 8" x 36" drawer is an optimist.

In the idealized environment of the shop one could build a working drawer to any +XX/-0.0 clearance. But I anticipate "climate change" as defined as the microclimate a piece I build for a grand daughter might endure as she matures and moves who knows how many times. The drawer length may not change but the case probably will.

I was in a gallery this weekend. Nice desk design, and wood, with 3 figured drawers across the top. $4500. Pulled out a 3" high drawer. Applied front to a machine dovetailed drawer box and Accuride slides . Really! A 3" drawer is not much of a challenge to make quickly with traditional construction. I gag when I encounter kitchen cabinet hardware on Studio case furniture and I am seeing it a lot in Grovewood Gallery.

Re: Funny you should come up with that value

Brian Holcombe

.030" is right on for me, these also happen to be my favorite drawers to use. I am careful to use wood that is slightly bowed when I make drawers, I let the bow go toward the inside of the drawer. Light enough that the drawer sides push it to be straight. This prevents the need to plan for a situation in which the drawer sides bow outward which is fairly common amongst rift and quarter sawn material.

Most often I see wood on wood drawers in studio furniture, at least in the area near me, especially for little drawers. I do see metal glides on big file drawers however.

36" is not terrible, I did it on the Butler's desk project without much issue beyond a few things to keep the drawer aligned. It's definitely easier to make a drawer that is narrow and deep, and much preferred.

oops - Michelangelo - not Leonardo!

Wow!

Tony - Memphis

They are indeed producing some fine furniture. The prices were enlightening. Good to know that there is a market for that level (I assume they are selling things?).

Thanks for the link. Great stuff!

Tony