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HEPA Filter question?

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HEPA Filter question?

#1

HEPA Filter question?

Barry Irby

In the discussion Bill posted below about the danger of potassium dichromate, Jesse Cloud Quoted a product review from FWW about "who would want a HEPA filter On a shop vac?" I have a post questioning the dust on my DC PVC pipes.

I am running my Festool sander connected to a Rigid shop vac with a drywall dust bag in it and the regular filter. I don't see anything escaping the shop vac. Is it possible the dust is too fine for me to see until it is attracted out of the air by the electrostatic charge on the DC pipes?

(I am trying to convince myself I don't NEED a Festool dust extractor.) What makes this even harder is there is a perfect little cubbyhole in my tiny shop for this $700 dust extractor that is going to save my lungs from a certain death.

So, for those of you that have a shop vac with a HEPA filter, can you tell the difference? Is there a down side, such as having to clean or replace that clearly worthless filter? Is there another brand you would recommend?

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#2

Place a very intense light in your shop *LINK*

Dick Coers

Then sand, and you will have the answer to how much fine dust is getting airborne. Maybe sand some red heart or padauk. The red always stands out better than tan. The way I understand one of the benefits of the Festool vac, is the adjustable suction. It lets you match air flow to the tool and makes the sanding operation more efficient.

I don't have one, likely a mistake. At our ages Barry, it could boil down to if and when we get to pull an oxygen bottle behind us. For younger guys, it could be a case of cancer or both. The deal with the finest particles is that they don't stop in the lungs. They get in our blood stream. Quote from Bill Pent website; "fine dust causes one in seven to develop such bad allergic reactions they must stop woodworking, forces one in fourteen into an early medical retirement, poisons a few, a tiny number develop nasal cancers and all lose about 1% of their respiratory capacity per year of work which worsens age related health problems and shortens lifespans."

A few more years worth $700? I see people spending every penny they have to live 1 more horrible year after getting a cancer diagnosis. I think I just convinced myself! lol


http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#3

Re: Place a very intense light in your shop

Barry Irby

I have a friend who at 81 has a fortune. He grew up poor but made it big. Now he needs some in home help but is struggling with the idea of paying THAT Much.

I commented to a mutual friend, "What is the money for if not to take care of yourself in your later years?" I thought that was obvious, the mutual friend was taken aback and had apparently never thought about it. Odd, how we see things.

I maybe in line for a Festool vac.

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#4

Re: HEPA Filter question?

jesse cloud

Barry, that review was a few years ago, I think HEPA filters are available on many brands now.

I would worry especially about what you encounter flipping houses, probably sanding some pretty nasty stuff (lead paint, etc).

My dad died of lung cancer. His final weeks were complete agony, not clear whether his lungs would give out first or his heart. He was always a dignified man, but in the last week he was begging for someone to kill him.

I think of that when I make safety choices.

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#5

Sorry about your Dad, Jesse

Dick Coers

We lost my younger brother to colon cancer at the age of 48. It should be a crime to make a person suffer like that. When healthy, he weighed about 250. He was less than 80 pounds when he mercifully died. Wide open morphine for weeks. It tore your heart apart!

My Dad was very lax with farm chemicals, and that lack of concern was passed on to my brother. Dad used to complain of diarrhea when spraying soybeans. Maybe there should have been a different plan? Like maybe a few more bugs would not be all that bad? I blame those decisions on his early demise. No proof of course!

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#6

Re: HEPA Filter question?

TomD

The drywal bag is designed for drywall, and they seem pretty efficient, but they depend on bing clogged with drywall dust to supplement the filtration effect. In random work in the shop, there is no guarantee that the particles in the bag will contain the particles you are currently producing. Sometimes those system discharge a little air when they start up, until the bag clogs. Plus the bag may not clog at all, if you are aspirating plastic ball bearings that fell on a floor that also is covered with sandpaper micro granules.

The particle size that will get you is not necessarily one you can see. The problem is once it is in the shop, then you are breathing it all the time, every time you move something, sneeze, or turn on something with a fan. The key is never to introduce anything in the first place. So I do most of my bad stuff out of doors. Which really cuts into my year. Also, there is stuff I just won't do. Everyone who dry sands has abundant nasties to worry about.

SOLUTION - I had a QSP shopvac that I love, it is handy, quiet, and powerful enough for local extraction of some tools. I bought an LV goretex hepa filter for it. Another option is if your SV has an exhaust hose attachment, well for one thing you can blow the dust outside to some kind of containment, if the weather permits. But you can buy any large surface area hepa filter, and just box it on the outflow. Your primary containment is the drywall bag, secondary is the hepa.

(these are solutions to the hepa problem, not the full on problem. If you are doing bad things in your shop, and you work a lot, and it is not like an operating theatre, that you can clean out perfectly. It is a problem. I used to get this guitar making magazine. Guitar making is small scale, and there is nothing like sanding down a boat hull made of fiberglass, most of the guys work really clean. But they use a lot of CA, exotics, pearls, nitro, etc... The magazine was full of all the obituaries to not terribly old builders. Hmm.)

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#7

Re: HEPA Filter question?

Don Stephan

You might try sanding for say 20 minutes (change paper as needed) using your current system, and see if there is any sanding dust accumulating downstream from the shop vac exhaust. Seems like drywall sanding dust was a lot coarser than dust from even 240 grit paper.

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#8

Dust mask?

Tony - Memphis

maybe I'm missing something here, but what about a good old dust mask to protect your lungs? i don't see how a shop vac filter can collect enough dust to protect you against airborne dust? (or a dust collector for that matter).

Tony (breathing easy - through a mask - I hate 'em, but I wears 'em - religiously!)

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#9

Re: Dust mask?

John K Jordan

Tony, I've tried a bunch of different masks/respirators and I hated wearing many of them. This one is the most comfortable and has excellent ratings. I have no problem wearing it for hours. I use it with 3M P100 filters for dust. It fits well under a face shield.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MCUT86

I prefer a respirator to even the Trend powered face shield I have - I think the respirator has better filtering. (and it's a LOT cheaper!)

JKJ

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#10

Got one!

Tony - Memphis

I had the old style and they discontinued it. I like this one much better. I normally just wear an N95 disposable. I tried the N100's but I don't think they fit as well and let stuff int he gaps (maybe its my weird face?!?).

Tony

Re: HEPA Filter question?

#11

Re: Dust mask?

Jesse Cloud

Dust masks are good! Either N or P series will do the job, and of course 100 (per cent of 0.3 micron particles caught) is better than 95.

A few cautions, though.... they only work if they are well fitted - take the time to adjust it to your face, they are not designed to be reused often, and they only work if you wear them - so an cheap but uncomfortable mask is no bargain!

Its still better, though, to catch the dust at the source. If the dust settles on the floor or your bench, etc., its gonna come back at you when you clean shop.

And if your shop cleaning process involves blowing dust off stuff with compressed air, please wear the best protection you can find!!

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