The idea is that I’m going to build solid wood drawer boxes for my project. Join the front of the boxes to the sides with through dovetails. The box fronts are all walnut.
I’m then going to Bandsaw a nice piece of Claro walnut to 3/16” slices and glue this to the front of the regular walnut fronts.
I then have the illusion of half blind dovetails on all the drawers and a beautiful piece of wood has gone a lot further.
I don’t have a vacuum press, and have never actually tried this.
At that thickness consider that a solid, thin, wood board, not veneer, will be glued to the drawer front. If the drawers are not too tall this approach could work. On a tall drawer there could be a mismatch between the response of the two pieces to changes in moisture and the front will split. This possibility is higher with figured wood.
When the thinner pieces gets wet with glue expect it to want to curl. You will need to work quickly to restrain it. Which leads to clamping. How are you going to accomplish this key element?
And a question? Why don't you do this construction conventionally? Truly veneer (1/16") the drawer fronts, cut these pieces to size and half blind the drawer front?
You mention figured Claro walnut and "regular" walnut. Are they both claro? If you are gluing claro to american black walnut there may be even larger differences in expansion to account for.
I would cut the veneer to a 1/16" or less and then apply it to the drawer front that I had already dovetailed and fitted.
You can make a vacuum press out of a plastic bag and a shop vac. Not very good, but it will get you started. Assemble the pieces in the bag and then add as much clamping as you can figure out how. Pile sandbags on top.
Or, I went to a local company that makes counter tops. they gave me several sink cutouts. Because they had laminate (Formica) on only one side, some of them had warped into something like a dome. I cut them down to the size of the largest drawer front and then sandwiched the pieces between them with the convex side toward the pieces. Then put every clamp I could find around the edges. Worked well. As the drawers got smaller, I cut the cauls down.
You don't need anything fancy on smallish pieces. the hard part is to keep everything lined up while the clamps go on. Make the veneer oversized a bit.
"The idea is that I’m going to build solid wood drawer boxes for my project. Join the front of the boxes to the sides with through dovetails. The box fronts are all walnut.
Lee, that form of construction will show up as a defect given some time. What will happen is that the through dovetails will eventually telegraph through, even with your relatively thick veneer. I've seen exactly that result in many any antique or old piece of furniture made on (what we describe as) on the cheap using, even thicker veneers than you propose, right up to the point of significant failure. If your plan is to veneer the drawer fronts I recommend you use traditional lap dovetails to avoid that specific fault showing up some time in the future. Slainte.
If I understand your intent correctly, I have done a very similar technique on drawers with success. The only issues might be the size of the drawers and if there is a big difference in expansion of the two walnuts.
One example (see photo) I did was the drawer boxes for the blanket chests I built. The 1/2" sides and back were quarter sawn sycamore, while the front was curly maple. I used through dovetails all around. I attached a piece of 1/4" curly maple to the front that had beaded round-over edges. In the end the fronts looked like a standard 3/4" solid front without all the work cutting rabbeted edges and half blind dovetails.
Richard is correct. I was thinking you were using half blind dovetails on the drawers , and they would work better. I have seen a number of antiques where they veneered over through dove tails and they showed through after a while. Probably aggravated by using different species. Don't do it.
But I didn't use "veneer". I made full drawer fronts that lap over the top of the drawer box. The front is 1/2" thick except for the top which is 3/4" thick. This was then glued to the drawer front. Been there for close to 15 years and the only tell tale is the inside of the drawer were you can see the slight glue line and grain change.
I have done that countless times using Titebond. Apply "just enough" glue to wet both surfaces and clamp them together with cauls. Tape them in place to keep them from slipping out of alignment. Cut the claro a little over sized and trim it flush after. You can use a very few grains of salt to help avoid the slipping. Leave it clamped overnight. The glue may take longer to set because it is sealed up away from air.
I would still make the veneer as thin as possible to make the edge invisible and avoid the conflict in expansion rates problem. Assuming the drawers are not too wide it will work well. Somewhere to about four inches is negligible.
I have not looked up the expansion properties of the two woods, but the closer they are the better. It can come down to the orientation of the grain. the closer they are the wider they can be. I glued some ordinary black walnut to curly walnut and have had good luck for about ten years. Some of the drawers were eight inches wide.
On gluing thin stock to thicker stock, I have put a piece of The white poly foam they use under laminate flooring on top of the veneer and then squeezed it flat. It's about a 1/16 to 1/8" to start and crushing it distributes the pressure. I also used thin black foam for the same thing. A layer of polyethylene over the veneer will keep any bleed through glue from gluing the whole thing together.
Ok so I will build the drawer first using half blind dovetails. ......I hope others comment but I would veneer the substrate, in your case walnut, and then cut to size and make a drawer of it. Your veneer should be in the range of 1/16 to 3 /32" thick.
Do you think if I lamenated 3 or pieces of 3/4” MDF together and sandwiched the veneer with gazzilions of clamps this would suffice?....... Ideally you want about 15 psi on the assembly. One piece of MDF will do but plywood would be stiffer. 1/2 gazzilions of clamps will suffice. Clamping provides more than enough pressure. The challenge is to get this pressure uniform. Caution......put something glue proof between veneer and MDF. It is common for glue to soak through figured veneer.
I do still have the issue of applying Claro walnut to regular walnut...No
And what about glue? Any glue will do. I use white thinned 5% with water to make the excess squeeze out easier.
Hammer veneering is relatively easy and fun to do. If the veneer is thin enough (1/16" or less), you shouldn't have any problem with different expansion coefficients unless they are dramatic. It goes quickly, is a pretty forgiving procedure, you don't need clamps and it looks nice when it's done. Much of the 17th and 18th Century furniture we all admire was veneered with hide glue and a veneer hammer.
I watched Alf Sharp fail to stick veneer to a drawer front at a SAPFM demonstration. I was given that spectacular crotch veneer in our wall cabinet because the person that does Federal stuff in Ohio? failed to stick it to Mayberry's desk doors. I figures if the pros have problems I'm not messing with it, especially after watching the Headly shop uneventfully stick veneer with vacuum and white glue.
Too many folks get caught up in the minutia....veneer is technically:
ve·neer
vəˈnir/Submit
noun
1.
a thin decorative covering of fine wood applied to a coarser wood or other material.
verb
1.
cover (something) with a decorative layer of fine wood.
Notice that there is NO mention of qualifying thickness!!!
So, yes, it IS veneering. I haven't tried what you are describing exactly. I normally do the same thing but have always used thicker wood just because. For something like claro where you might have a need to use thinner stock so you can replicate a pattern, then I would certainly go thinner. I would think that a heavy 3/16 or 1/4 would be ok. I have certainly seen other folks do that.
Good luck with your project. We'd love to see some pics. That claro can be some lovely stuff!
I have clamped many a panel with cauls made of mdf and melamine. I just used lots of clamps. On a long or wide surface, I might used a curved caul above the flat caul to make sure I had force in the middle. Sometimes, I use a piece of scrap veneer or a popsicle stick placed under the middle of the caul to force the issue. I think Barry mentioned making the veneer oversize - that is a good idea - things get real slippery and start moving - its a Murphy thing I believe! I use blue tape to tape the piece down before clamping -that helps a bit.
I don't have a vacuum set-up and don't want to invest in one. Hammer veneering has worked well for me on several projects, and I don't claim to be any kind of expert. I'm sure there are times when it is problematic, but so far I find it effective and enjoyable.
Not sure anyone suggested using a thicker slice of wood was not veneering.
I have seen numerous credible reports that slices of wood thicker than I think 1/8" are more likely to act like solid wood, possibly resulting in splits and other issues. For example, one certainly could glue a 1/2" thick board to an MDF or baltic birch plywood backer - there are no operational or physical issues preventing it. However, if in an environment with seasonal humidity changes one would reasonably expect that the plywood would remain unresponsive while the wood would try to expand and contract in response to the seasonal humidity changes. If the seasonal humidity changes are above a certain level, the wood MIGHT crack and/or the glue joint MIGHT fail.
Everyone is free to do complete their woodworking projects as they see fit. There is nothing wrong however with offering an understanding of wood properties so that everyone can make an informed choice.
Actually, there is a reply up above titled "This approach is not veneering."
Good points. I normally use the same if not similar wood for the front of the drawer box. There is a good article out there (FWW?) about creating a "lipped" drawer using this method. I can't recall thicknesses and such.
Yep, we are all free to do what we want. I don't think I suggested otherwise!?!
