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CNC Router Experiences?

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CNC Router Experiences?

#1

CNC Router Experiences?

Brian in SLO

I'm looking into taking the leap into the world of CNC routing mainly for the purpose of engraving and making of small parts. I'm thinking table size no bigger than 48" square (that's all the space I can muster). I've seen a wide variable on pricing and features and wanted to hear from those who have already taken the leap on what set-ups worked best, features (limit switches, software, etc) that you could live without (or not do without)

I've looked at the Inventables X-carve as an entry level starting point, but maybe you guys have some better options.

I've always preferred to stay away from computers in woodworking as an ex-printer who was put out to pasture due to computers taking over the craft of the trade. Time to give in, I guess, to do some things that are just too much work done by hand anymore.

I look forward to the discussion!

Brian

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#2

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

TomD in Toronto

48 x48 is a biggie, a lot larger than engraving and small parts would suggest. Often those specialties are accommodated on far smaller machines, in some cases loaded Chinese 3020 imports will do it at a reasonable price. The smaller machines are more rigid and may allow milling of metals like aluminum and brass. To get a 4x4 machine that has enough speed to do larger projects, and stiffness and resolution to do smaller detailed, or soft metal parts is a big deal.

I have been sniffing around the corners of CNC for a long time, and my need for a 4x8 machine due to boat building, has really killed the dream. Too expensive. But a 4x4 is basically everything a 4x8 is, but without 2 pieces of 4 foot track. There is a new idea out there for the 4x8, The Maslow. So far a compromise in quality and speed, but can be made for a lot less than anything to date.

There are so many interrelated decisions with CNC, no one too complicated in itself, but almost impossible taken together, that it would be a great thing if you could find a local makers club, or enthusiast to get some info from.

The software is pretty expensive, in the engraving machine size, I would be interested in looking at what GRBL could do for you, if you have a reliable internet connection.

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#3

Budget?

Dick Coers

That has to be the first fact needed when asking for advice. What ever you do, I'd suggest you look at getting something with a spindle in it. Listening to a hand held router motor run for 1 hour solid is horrible. Then if you do any 3d carving, you'll have to listen to it for 4 hours. It will run you out of the shop when using a router motor!

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#4

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

TomD

Without limit switches, some guys have crashed and burned their setups right out of the gate. Once you get the hand of the process they are great for zeroing the router to the work. The switches are pretty cheap, but then you have to wire them, and set up the software for them, so it is one more thing. CNC router parts has the products, and is worth a look around.

I don't know the Inventables X-carve, but it seems to have a good following. The gantry looks flexible (users will know for sure), and I didn't see a sufficient to my purposes implementation of dust extraction.

I am wondering about implementing a spindle rather than a router. A full set up with variable speed back to the control can get pricey, but some spindles seem in the same price range as a router, and to have satisfied customers.

https://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Cooled-Milling-Converter-Engraving/dp/B01LNBOCDA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1511395188&sr=8-3&keywords=cnc+spindle#customerReviews

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#5

Re: Budget?

Brian in SLO

Most definitely would prefer a liquid cooled spindle if at all possible over a router. Definitely a problem listening to the deafening scream of a router over the course of a few hours.

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#6

I have a Shapeoko

Mike Farinella

It's almost fully assembled. It uses your laptop as the software driver. Mine is the XL and sits on a 4' X 2' table. Dust collection is a must and noise suppression (in some sort of enclosure) is recommended. Great customer service is a MUST!

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#7

No Experience With This But... *LINK*

John McGaw

...it looks like it could be fun to play with. It had a write-up in the Make: magazine. I'd be tempted to buy one to play with if I could begin to imagine a use for it.


Bob's

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#8

Re: No Experience With This But...

Dick Coers

Hard to imagine their claim of a "rigid" frame, and total weight of 25 pounds would equal the same thing. Also I can't imagine a trim router will have a very long life cutting plywood.

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#9

Re: No Experience With This But...

TomD

Here is a connection to the latest Maslow video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAyDumHOdxo

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#10

Re: What to do.  There is lots.

TomD

"I'd be tempted to buy one to play with if I could begin to imagine a use for it."

Industry has embraced CNC in order to make repetitive parts with machined accuracy, but most of us don't need accurate parts to the level of interchangeability, or multiples. And where either are concerned there are often other less expensive routes to those goals.

Makers are a new addition to the scene. Making is distributed industrialization, in a world with file sharing, and open source. So if you look at that Maslow CNC piece. He made some perfectly awful chairs (plywood is the wrong structure for several of the described load paths; waste is huge; they don't look comfortable), worse than IKEA, but he made them himself.

So for myself the main thing is I design or draft in CAD. This is pretty easy, you could learn to draw circles squares and lines, in a few minutes. Then you basically learn how to index parts to each other, and when necessary copy or adapt existing forms. If you went through typing and then word processing, you know the enormous power of the computer to adjust formatting, spelling, send out mass mailings, adjust the look, create a file of formats you can cut and paste, and be electronically communicated. Similar tools exist in CAD, that make it pointless to waste time on designs or drawing outside of CAD. Once a design is in the system, it can be adjusted for size, or the components reused.

The frustration is having digital patterns and then needing to copy them out and go after them with normal woodworking tools, that will do a worse job. Another major frustration is all the machines and tools one may buy to do jobs that a single CNC would do. Of if you know how to do CNC, there are simple machines that can be created to do a single job cheaply and accurately. like a Domino, or screw threading. But that is getting pretty advanced.

CNC is awesome at curves. boats and guitars are two things I design in CAD, and hate to have to plot out by hand. One thing it does very well is branding. With things like boats and guitars, it's sad, but having script on the project enhances the value. CNC makes that kind of thing easy. For instance a simple router can engrave very detailed pictures or script onto a grain of rice. Imagine the logo or marking one could put on the endgrain of planes.

I do leatherwork and would like to be able to cut out parts, and mark cuts for the tooling. At this point, I make the design, print it on paper, or clear film, then cut out a ply pattern, and if that survives I make a lexan one if the product comes into my catalog. With CNC I could go directly from concept to cutting it out with a dragknife. I don't need to store patterns, and if the shop burns down, I won't have lost all my patterns. That same knife can make custom boxes to post your products in, and transfers, stencils, or large stamps to brand the boxes.

Sometimes a product won't fit a machine, but you may still be able to make the jigs that will allow the product to be made, using your other tools.

The enhanced process doesn't need to affect the hand work or craftsmanship that goes into your work, in a commercial setting it tends to drive products that will be series production. For me it would probably be the means to making custom go more quickly and deeply into the process, and to add artistic touches and branding.

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

#11

Re: CNC Router Experiences?

Tony - Memphis

I have a CNC Router Parts machine. I have been at it for about a year and a half. Mine is their Standard 24x48. More machine than I need, but I did that on purpose. I use a Bosch 1617. I have been real happy with the setup. Still learning! I chose CNCRP based on a lot of research. I found lots of posts on less expensive machines that talked about how to "fix" and make them better. Not so much for the CNCRP stuff. I didn't want the machine to my hobby. This thing is solid and it seems to be a solid design. I use their limit switch kit - worth the investment. As for software, I use Mach3 and Vcarve Pro. I also use various other software for deign (InteliCAD, Corel, etc.). Just this weekend, I traced an item from a cell phone pic in Corel, saved it as a DXF, then imported it into Vcarve (then I tried tracing with Vcarve and liked the results better - oh well).

Be prepared - the footprint of my 24x48 is a fair amount larger than that. Plus, the motors stick out, etc. Dust collection is a must. And don't forget the associated costs - tooling, dust collection setup, the table, etc. etc. It dominoes into quite an investment. I'm not unhappy with my choice, but I think I could have had as much fun with one of the cheaper machines - maybe?

I have done a little engraving in Al, plastic, and wood, circuit boards, all sorts of wood and MDF projects, and small amount of plastic. There are lots of good sources for tooling - toolstoday is great (lots of good videos), eBay, etc.

Might do some looking at CNCZone forums - lots of good info. Vcarve offers a free trial. Mach3 is not difficult and you can create your own scripts in a VB like language.

Anyway, good luck. I really like having this thing. I don't do a lot of 3D work. Too time consuming and its just not my thing. Oh, for some machines, you need a dedicated PC. For Mach3, speed and memory are important. I would like to upgrade my laptop...someday.

I tried some inlay recently. Worked very well. I even tried a drag knife on some veneer and that went fairly well - need to keep fiddling with it. Also did some inlay using the 60° V bit technique. That works well too - pretty neat technique.

Tony

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