Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge
VOCs in finishing
mike mcnerney
I am looking for opinions, or articles on the VOCs in finishing. What I have found already is that they seem to talk about the disposal of these products compared to WB.
My usual finisher who uses post cat urethane says that once they have dried (off gassed?) there is no problem. I have a kitchen customer who wants everything low VOC which isn't a problem for the melamine which seems to be readily available.
Re: VOCs in finishing
Dick Coers
Being dry to the touch, and done off gassing is two different things. I don't know the exact amount of time for off gassing to completely stop for your product, but I'm guessing weeks/maybe a month. The interior of the boxes will be another issue. If sprayed with the same material, and less air flow inside the box, double the off gassing time as a min.
Re: VOCs in finishing
John McGaw
I think that, in your position, I would contact the maker of the specific finish product and ask the question. I'd also make sure that I have read the MSDS and any other government-required documentation about that specific product. There is probably no generic answer to your question.
Re: VOCs in finishing
Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey
Mike,
"Drying" for solvent finishes (Lacquer & Shellac) is evaporation, not "off gassing".
Reactive finishes like oil finishes first "dry" as the carrier solvents evaporate, but then do create very small amounts vapor as part of the polymerizing chemical process. That can take up to several weeks. VOC ratings focus on the solvents (alcohols, stoddard/naptha, acetones, etc) used to create the finish liquids. Once those solvents evaporate (few days to a week), the finish film is essentially VOC free as stated by your finisher. The point here is that as long as whatever you use is "dry" and/or "cured" when you deliver the items to your customer, they will be essentially VOC free.
PS
Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey
So long as you don't use Chinese plywood with the formaldehyde glue!
Re: VOCs in finishing
mike mcnerney
thanks I believe that answers my question
Re: VOCs in finishing
TM Stock
Lacquer continues to dump plasticizers and the less volatile solvents trapped in the film for decades...one of the things that make it such in incredible instrument finish.
Re: Some food for thought......
Jesper, Denmark
There is a lot of concern over VOC's. Quite rightly so, but there is too little discussion about the alternative water based coatings.
In nearly all cases, the finished film forming material is a hydrocarbon. Hydrocarbons are not soluble in water, so a co-solvent is needed to make the film chemical soluble in the water base.
This co-solvent is very often a glycol ether or derivative thereof. These are NOT nice chemicals, and are not as volatile as the VOC's, so it must be assumed that they stay longer in the finished film than the VOC's would have.
Google "glycol ether" and read the Wiki article. On the same Google listing, there are several other articles from reputable sources, such as EPA, which discuss the potential hazards.
The tendency is to consider "water based" and "low VOC" as synonymous with " safe". This may not be the right assumption. It may simply be that these chemicals have not been in use long enough for the health hazards to be fully documented.
Personally, I prefer the devil I do know (VOC) to the devil I do not know.
The problem with a little chemistry....
Bill Tindall, E.Tn.
The people making this stuff and the professionals using it are vastly more exposed to these materials than the piddly amount we as amateurs are exposed to. If the people making these chemicals, who are closely monitored, or the professional finishers, are not suffering harm, why are the rest of you all fretting? Unjustifiably, I would conclude.
People pump gasoline without a respirator yet fret over some varnish fumes. Makes no toxicological sense. With excessive exposure gasoline would be more harmful but neither is a problem if used as directed.
There are dozens of kinds of glycol ethers. Some have more toxicity than others. Stuff gets formulated with the least toxic of them all and none pose any risk at our exposure levels. Some of the paint/finish coalescing agents aren't glycol ethers.
If you all are not willing to accept that products out there are safe as directed for use you are going to have a stressful life and die prematurely of stress, not chemical exposure.
I have an otherwise seemingly intelligent neighbor that avoids the "risk" of white flour in favor or whole wheat, oblivious to the fact that 99+% of the population has, and seems to now, survive with white flour. Maybe there is a need to feel special when it comes to risk and feel risk even when it is obvious that others are not suffering.
I would not otherwise care except that all this chemophobia causes useful to me products to disappear- moisture cured urethane varnish and polycarbonate plastic objects, for example. Out high school and undergraduate chem classes are not preparing people to face chemical toxicology descisons.
Re: Agree (long comment)
Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana
AGREE 100%. I am 76 years old. Some of the occupations and exposures to "Dangerous substances" I have had were ~
Steel mills 1960's, washed stenciling off oil well pipe with Toluene until I passed out. Sent home with smelling salts - no apparent farther issues. Exposed to many fumes, solvents soot etc.
Gas stations 1960's -70's ~ repaired many automobile brakes, used to wash many glazed brake shoes in gasoline then buff on wire wheel till clean - "asbestos linings". Innumerable times swallowed gasoline, exposed to a LOT of used motor oil.
Motor repair shop 1960's: We saved PCB laden oil from large motor starters and transformers and washed our hands in it to remove grease, often ate a sandwich immediately after! Also used Carbon Tet fire extinguishers to clean running motors.
Contracting: 1960 to 1990's: installed many steel chimneys using sheet asbestos wrapping to insulate from nearby flammable items, had a paste I mixed to glue it on.
Manufacturing Engineer: 1967 to 2006, exposed to many solvents, fumes and chemicals in the early days including Toluene, Trichloroethane 111, Acetone, Freon, Formaldehyde, Plating chemicals etc.
Hobby's: Shooting / reloading 1960's to present: cast thousands of lead bullets (indoors), shot same. Woodworking: used many gallons of solvent based coatings, sprayed gallons (usually outside) but brushed / applied gallons inside. (Never have used a respirator) also painted with a lot of lead based paint. Gardening: Used just about every Pesticide known to man.
In addition, I drank many gallons of unpasteurized milk, handled and ate many eggs just out of the henhouse, sure much of the time I butchered chicken I was exposed to Salmonella. Spent many days in the woods, exposed to all types of poison plants with no effects. Swam in local creeks, sometimes had to get out of the water to let cattle / hog excrement float past. Doubt I swam many times without swallowing some water! Also smoked cigarettes for over 55 years - know I should stop but doubt it would have any effect now.
In conclusion, I am still pretty healthy, do have type two diabetes (under control). Still active, I guess some of the things I have done will kill me sooner or later, but don't know of any person but one that hasn't died, feel sure the Good Lord will determine when and how. At this point in my life I certainly am not going to worry about minor exposure to any chemicals, out gassing etc., think the people that worry suffer more than those exposed!