I got it running today. Sort a little test run. Ran a piece of poplar through it about 6" wide and 18" long. Only had one 4" dc hose connected to it and ran the board directly under that DC port. Did not see any airborne dust escaping and very little on the conveyor, but a layer on the board. Enough that you could not see through the layer.
The manual says some dust left on the board is normal. This was several times what I expected. How much is normal?
I am looking at my DC setup and trying to figure out second line. The complication is that any easy second line would come off the same four inch rigid line. It seems to me that cutting into the same four inch rigid line would not double the air flow. It would be a PITA to cut into the 6" trunk. Would it be worth it?
I don't know what kind of dust collector you have and how far away the sander is located. So can't hazard a guess. The bad thing about dust collection on that type of sander, is you just have a hole in the hood well above the roller. You do not collect at the point of sanding, you just pull from a hole above it. You need a ton of velocity to pull the dust off the board.
The owner's manual likely will have suggestions on air volume and velocity needed. If you didn't get one with the sander, look on the manufacturer's web site. Better to do some reading before jumping in with changes that may or may not be adequate.
I have a 1 1/2hp dc that is supposed to draw about 1100cfm. That is the usual over hyped number. It's just outside the shop in a closet. About 12 feet from the sander in a straight line, but more like 20 feet if you count all the ups and downs and bends. The trunk lines are 6" PVC and the branches are 4". Most machines have a dedicated four inch drop. There is a 4" hose available for those that don't, but I did not consider a machine would ask for two.
The manual calls for 450 CFM. I have forgotten what you can draw through a 4" pipe and hose. I don't have an easy way to tie into a completely separate part of the system to double the airflow, whatever it is.
I am considering trying to use my shopvac on the second port as an experiment.
And, you are right, the hood is poorly designed. Too far from the rollers and the system is way too "open" with air coming in from everywhere.
I know that....went through all the calculations about ten years ago when i installed the DC. I even left a 6" port for future additions, but it's in the wrong end of the shop.
I am thinking of modifying the hood on the sander to combine the two four inch ports into a five inch one, because I have a piece of five inch hose.
I wish there was and easy way to experiment with this. It would be a shame to install and new 6" branch and find out it does not make much difference.
Not finding quick info, but thinking you loose velocity when going to a larger duct diameter. You might want to research that before cutting on the machine.
You are right. I was not going to cut into the machine. I was thinking of removing the two plastic ports and then making a little hood to sit on the dust hood and attach with magnets so I could connect a single five or six inch duct.
I think the velocity of the air is the problem. Lots of places for air to enter the machine around the conveyor. this reduces the velocity of the air and without velocity, it won't have the energy to pick up the dust.
I have an old Grizz 1066 that I upgraded with H&L drums, a variable speed belt motor, and larger dust ports plumbed to a good sucker. I still get a thin layer of dust on certain woods- ones that are heavy or if the moisture content is a bit high.
My solution (someday) will be to add a rotating bristle brush on the outfeed side to break up and lift the dust off the surface.
That's about where I am. I have three minutes f experience with this machine, but my instinct tells me that doubling or tripling the air flow is not going to do much. This layer of dust is about ten inches below the top of the ports. to move enough air to create enough turbulence to keep it flying long enough to get into the hoses would be enormous.
I was considering some hula skirt type brushes to close off some of the air entry. I thought about mounting the shopvac directly above the outfeed of the board. The best bet might be to just dump the dust off the board or brush it off and in some of the videos on YouTube and shop vac it up later.
I am not sure how much use the machine will get so spending a lot of effort "perfecting" or trying to perfect the dust collection may be a waste of time, at least until I decide its worth it.
They suggested I cut into my 6" line and install a dedicated branch and then split it into two 4" lines for the sander. That would be the hard way.
I found out why the layer of sawdust was so perfect on the outfeed side. The sander has a dust scoop behind the drum on the outfeed side that is set 1/32" above the plank. This explains why the sawdust appears to have the screeded or struck off at a very uniform thickness, because it was.
I tried it with the shopvac stuck into the other port in a reducer. It helped.
If the dust hood is leveling the sawdust and not picking it up, there is really a problem. A friend made a home made wide belt sanding machine for me. Dust pickup was horrible and seemed like the dust was sticking to the belt by static. I thought about trying to add a compressed air curtain to cut the dust off the belt. I sold the machine instead.
The problem with dust collection is volume and velocity. DC's tend to move lots f volume, but at fairly low velocity. Shopvacs move air at much high velocity but lower volume.
This machine has openings parallel to and on both sides of the conveyor belt down into the base cabinet. The bottom of the cabinet is wide open. That means a huge amount of air comes in from the sides and goes to the hood without being directed over the sanded surface or the drums. I was considering putting a bottom on the cabinet, forcing the system to draw its makeup air in through the slots the lumber feeds into and out of. I think that would improve the dust collection dramatically. But, it dawned on me that the air coming up through the cabinet is cooling the motors. Wonder if they would overheat without that air flow? Wonder what would happen if I ran a full width piece through, closing off the infeed and out feed slots?
....they asked if I would be running a sander. I gathered that the system to handle a sander and its boat loads of fine dust is different. I suspect you will need commercial capacity dust collection to handle a commercial sander. The fact that what you have hooked to only one port collected little dust is a clue that you are far away from adequate.
And to that end......it is taking you (and most of us) months to build two chests of drawers. For what do you need this production capacity? I mostly hand sand what I build, and you will too if you want the best finish. Sanding is a tiny fraction of the build time.
Why do I need this sander???? Sir, I scoff at your question! I am one tool away from greatness.
Because it was there? Because I bought a $1800 machine for $400? Because it's shiny? Because its only two years old and looks like new? Came with some free sandpaper? Because it almost fit in my tiny shop? Because I'm an idiot?
I may sell it. After I figure out how useless it is. That's why I don't want to put a lot of money and effort into the dust collection. Perhaps my rational brain will return in time to save me the time and effort and money.
It is a valuable machine for a shop doing production sanding. When we sold lumber there were several shops that could have used it for panels in kitchen cabinets. They would have applied finish right off the second drum.
Barry, I have a question I think others would also like answer to.......Why do you try to redesign the manufactures tools so they fit your quirky needs? There will be dust with any woodworking tool, and a lot of shavings. The dust collection systems are made to satisfy the general population of us who do enjoy the tools.
I don't see my needs as anymore quirky than anyone else's. Quirky in that I have tried to make do with what I have. I would like to have a much larger shop, but at my age and income, I don't think it's in the cards.
Been accumulating tools and skills since high school shop. When I was builder, the shop came in handy, but I did not get much time to build furniture. Not much time for the thirty two years I have been home Inspecting. Life got in the way. Now I get to play. If I live long enough. Cancer got in the way too.
I think the manufacturer's treat dust collection as an afterthought. Certainly true for the tools I bought in the 70's. This sander has a hood on it with two holes cut in it. Hook up enough suction to it and you get a semblance of dust collection.
You are right about the dust and shavings. I dovetailed 18 drawers today. Did not bother with the DC. Figured it was easier to clean up later than to fight it all the way. I got my contractor's saw up to about 90%. Shaper, chop saw, ROS, and jointer are close. Did not even try on the lathe. Sometimes I work ON the shop and sometimes I work in the shop.
As far as the new sander goes I will use it as is with minimal dust collection. If I keep it I will upgrade slightly. Yet to be seen if it will be useful enough to keep it. Make me an offer.
I'd say the only two machines I haven't modified in my shop are the 2436 Oneway lathe, and the Sawstop. Everything else has some tweeks. I've never seen a Grizzly machine that wouldn't benefit from some re-engineering. They build to a price point, not to engineering perfection. I applaud Barry's efforts and participation to the forum. It's not necessary to single out his efforts as unusual, unless you poll all of us to see if we don't do the same thing!
If efficiency and "need" were the only criteria I used when I equipped my shop, I would be working with hand tools.
I certainly won't at 76 years old build enough in my shop in my lifetime to economically justify: 1) Building the shop at 30' X 30' with 10' ceilings, and a loft to hold lumber, then installing a full central air and furnace system. 2) Purchasing the equipment including a Delta Unisaw with all the accessories, a 20" planer with Byrd head, 8" joiner with segmented spiral head, Fisch Mortiser, Powermatic floor stand drill press, Powermatic Lathe, Mini max 16" band saw, Jig saw, 3 welders, (Acetylene, Mig and Stick), Surface grinder, 60 gal air compressor and multiple paint guns, 6 or 7 routers, half dozen sanders, 3 hp cyclone dust collector, a few thousand dollars of various clamps, and sets of drill bits and router bits, 3 ~ 4 power grinders, and lots of money in hand tools and portable air and electric power tools! There really is no justification I could offer except it is my hobby and I enjoy the use of the equipment and having the things I wanted for years.
I also have a fairly large collection of firearms with my son, I haven't counted lately but think its over 100.
This is also not justifiable in any sensible way, except I enjoy it and can finally afford to do these things since my family is raised.
When I look at other "hobbies" like golf, serious fishermen, and many others, almost all spend several times what is justifiable in any way. I have friends that have spent many thousands for motor homes they use possibly 1 to 2 weeks a year, some fishermen and water sport friend have spent over $50,000 for a boat and gear, At most they catch a couple of hundred dollars worth a year of fish, that they could purchase at supermarkets cleaned and ready to cook.
My wife also reminisces about all the thing she has acquired now, saying how great it would have been to have everything she has now when we raised 6 children on a VERY limited budget. She also has many items she uses very rarely, that there is no real justification for owning.
Barry, I would have purchased the sander in a heartbeat! Enjoy....
Or at least our needs are. Once the machine is paid for, I see no reason not to make whatever adjustments one can manage to make it better suit our needs. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Isn't it amazing to live in a time when a lively discussion of how to go about designing and making such alterations to machinery is just a few keystrokes away?
I am jealous of your planer. And the size of your shop. OTOH, if I had the shop I probably would have bought the planer. Perhaps I can sand it into submission.
Talk about quirky, I have bought three Festool gadgets for exactly the same reasons I bought the sander. Track Saw, Router, and Domino. Got four or five times the money in those I have in the sander. That's not quirky is it? I can't fish with them or hit a golf ball, but I am enjoying the heck out of them. Come to think of it, the track saw would make a pretty good boat anchor. Needs a stronger attachment for the cord if I repurpose it as an anchor.
I have a friend who is actually wealthy and he is eighty years old. Car guy. Has eighteen. Bought a six wheel drive Gator. Drove it around the parking lot for about ten minutes and parked it in his warehouse. I thought is was great.
I sense Barry wants to build stuff. If this is the primary motivation then the criteria for tools becomes, do they help me build stuff. Decisions come easy in this situation.
Sometimes we loose focus when confronted with a "steal". I bought a Norris plane under these circumstances. It was less convenient to use than a $40 plane I had been using. Someone else owns it now. I similarly bought a Domino. Decision is still pending on this purchase.
