WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

WC Weekend Accomplishments....

Posts

WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#1

WC Weekend Accomplishments....

Dennis E Peacock

31 July 2017

Good Morning Everyone,

I got to spend a bit of time in the shop this past week and some this weekend. Made a couple of cutting boards and turned a couple of Spurtles. These are all gifts for friends. Thankfully, the temps have cooled off a bit, making it nicer to be in the shop. Rain and storms blew through and we got some much needed rain. Helped The LOML get some weeding done on some of the flower beds around the house and I got the lawn mowed...just before it started raining. Perfect timing. :)

That's it for me, so what did YOU do this past weekend?

Best of weeks to you all.

Dennis Peacock

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#2

Kneale Brownson

More moving.

Kneale Brownson

Got my Grizzly sander and Delta scrollsaw on their way to the container where I'm storing my tools in preparation for selling the property that's housed my stuff since the early 1970s.


img

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#3

Re: Spray system assembly...

Henry (Raleigh NC)

I have been ordering and storing the component pieces for a spray finishing set-up: pressure regulator, in-line air 'dryer', spray guns, and disposable cups and liners, hoses and fittings, as well as ordering some actual finish material. Boxes have been accumulating.

This weekend I finally took the plunge to assemble the various bits and pieces into a 'system'. Only then would I discover whether this would all work together.

Result: I came close to having all the pieces, but discovered that I needed one more female quick disconnect pneumatic fitting. Not to be stymied (since I did not have time to go acquire the type of fitting I wanted), I assembled it with what I had on hand to a working system (i.e. workable, but not the final configuration).

I fired up the compressor, filled the spray cup with water, and wet down the Amazon cardboard box. Yup I have joined the club of folks who can wet cardboard with a mostly even coating of water. The inside was the challenge.

That was the easy part. Now I've lots to learn about gun controls and how to coat evenly, but at least now I have something to practice with.

Henry

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#4

Re: Spray system assembly...

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Water is harder to spray than actual finish. Water has a huge surface tension that makes breaking it up to a nice fan pattern more difficult that the solvents in lacquer, for example. Lacquer is easy to spray, you will find.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#5

Re: Spray system assembly...

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Thanks Bill

I will be using waterborne lacquer, as well as shellac as my initial sprayed coatings, but only after I practice with more water. I'm not sure how long that will take to master the controls and the techniques, but right now the low (for NC) humidity would seem like great outdoor spraying weather. I'll try some more tonight.

Henry

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#6

Solvent lacquers are better

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Tell me why you, or anyone, would be using water borne lacquer instead of easy to spray and looks better traditional lacquer?

Shellac is hard to spray. It runs easily and is prone to severe blush.

Traditional lacquer is formulated with a selection of solvents that evaporate at different rates. The result is that when the lacquer hits the furniture the first solvent evaporates and the viscosity of the remaining film increases a lot. The result is no runs. But the remaining solvent keeps the film liquid so that it will flow out level. It can be sprayed under any conditions, perhaps with a bit of retarder when its hot or humid.

I have not seen every water borne product. But all I have look inferior to solvent based finishes. Can anyone say that they have used a water borne finish that looked as good as the corresponding solvent based finish?

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#7

Sure, I Can.

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey





Left solvent lacquer more than a decade ago. Started with Target PSL and have migrated to several others as they have improved over the years. The coatings have gotten so good "off-the-gun" that I almost never need to rub out a finish. The key to my regimen is that other stuff you don't like, dewaxed shellac, which I find very easy to spray without any drips, runs, or sags. People run afoul with shellac when they try to apply heavy coats. Since it (like solvent lacquer) has 100% burn-in, 4-5 light coats will beat 1 or 2 heavier applications every time.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#8

that other stuff you don't like?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I don't recall ever saying that I didn't like Shellac, of any kind. The last thing I sprayed with it was this Spice Box.



There is no way to claim though that it is as easy to spray as lacquer. As described in my previous post, lacquer is formulated to be resistant to spraying with less than perfect technique or experience. It is impossible to achieve the spraying qualities of lacquer with a single solvent system as is the case with Shellac. Furthermore, Shellac is a low molecular weight compound that can not have the favorable viscosity properties as it dries as a cellulose based coating. That said, I can spray it and I can formulate the solvent to spray it better than most. However, it is much less fool proof than lacquer and hence not a finish I would set a beginner upon.

I sprayed some clear coat automotive once. Now that set the bar for easy to spray well.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#9

Re: Sure, I Can.

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The clarity shown in the dark piece (walnut?) is better than I have ever seen in any water borne I have sprayed.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#10

Like

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

"Shellac is hard to spray. It runs easily and is prone to severe blush"

Didn't sound like you thought much of it, Bill.

I, however, don't use it as a final finish; I apply it as a foundation/tie coating to prepare the piece for the waterborne topcoat. I never spray it with RH over 65-70% so blush is not a problem.

On the other hand I have done several restorations using dewaxed garnet and nothing else. There it was tricky.

BTW The blue urns and the cherry top are Target EM6000 that was rubbed out. The white oak and walnut are General's Enduro Clear Gloss Poly straight from the gun; no rubbing required.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#11

Walnut

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

1 wipe application of Waterlox (red can) sealer +

3 coats of 1 lb. cut Ultra Pale dewaxed shellac +

3 coats of General's Enduro Clear Gloss Poly

Memsahib likes it too ;)

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#12

fencing and stuff

John K Jordan

Fencing time in TN. I like to wait until it is very hot and humid outside with plenty of sweat bees and gnats to entertain me. (not) We hit a big rock on this hole, broke the two shear pins on the auger, and had to break up and dig the rock out by hand with a heavy digging bar. This is Paul tamping post 8 out of 10:


I do have a hydraulic fence post driver that would have been easier but we didn't have many to set and they won't have a lot of tension so I decided to use the auger.

Bottled and sold over $300 of honey in the last few days. For some reason more people than in the past, many previous customers, want 1-gallon and 1/2-gallon jugs. I have about 12 gallons left but at this rate it won't last long. I'm bottling up a couple of quarts for us while I still can. Started working on my new beekeeping building, planning wiring for lights, receptacles, and small heat and air wall unit.

Also cut spindle and bowl blanks from thick cherry and walnut slabs to glue up for Beads of Courage bowls. I'm scheduled for a club demo later this month so I thought I should make one to make sure I remember all the details! This will use the method Harvey Meyer teaches: thick disks glued together to get enough height, each partially hollowed before gluing to save a bunch of effort when hollowing the thick stack.

The last stack I glued up like this I clamped with about eight clamps. I finally made a big clamp like the one Frank Penta showed me in his shop. It uses a cast iron book press (from Amazon), cheaper than I thought it would be!



https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-D3221-Super-Press/dp/B00012X504

JKJ

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#13

One More, Same Formula

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey


Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#14

will you explain the parts

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It is not apparent what the various parts of you procedure accomplish. Will you explain what finish property each part of the procedure provides- sealer, shellac and top coat.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#15

Beads of courage?

Gary Smyth

I have not previously heard the term. I looked up "beads of courage" and saw images of loose beads plastic and/or glass in a jar, clunky polished quartz stone and in one case. a wood bead rosary without the cross.

I have a mental picture but it may be wrong. What are "beads of courage", what do they represent, are they part of or go into a bowl?

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#16

Procedure

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

1. Sand to 220

2. On open-grain wood, light water wet to raise grain then card off with freshly edged/burred card

3. Vacuum well

4. Waterlox - this tung oil sealer will "pop" the grain but dry/cure enough in 24 hours and won't darken over time.

5. Shellac- Coats are laid on with "gentle" HVLP gun running at 15-18 PSI and a wide fan. The shellac seals in the oil to prevent any adhesion issues with the waterborne, but most importantly puts a reflective shine on the surface and prevents the water in the topcoat from puckering the wood fibers which will effectively kill the potential visual depth of the top coating. First shellac coat is slightly retarded with a drop or two of pure gum turps to give it more time to level. Next two are straight alcohol in a 1 lb cut. When applying shellac as a sealer under waterbornes, care must be taken to keep the shellac layer very thin to prevent subsequent cold-checking under the topcoats. The shellac layer can also be used to blend color variations or match the final result to other items in the same room by adding a touch of TransTint. Doing this with shellac allows for easy corrections, since the tinted layer comes off with an alcohol rubdown.

6. Waterborne - Topcoats are applied in accordance with the mfgr's directions. Enduro calls for three medium wet coats with a light rub of a synthetic super-fine pad when dry (about 1 hour at 70° and 65% RH) then recoat within 2 hours. I use an HVLP pressure pot gun with the air supply set at 40 psi and the gun regulated to 24 psi. With this combination the waterborne goes down like glass and the tail solvents spread very evenly. Some makers (like Target) sell an add-on cross-linker to increase film durability and chemical resistance.

The high end acrylic finishes (lacquer and polys) are usually water white but can also be easily tinted with TransTint concentrates if a warmer color is sought. The refraction values of the untinted cured finish films are also neutral, allowing the wood's full color through. Cheaper, Big Box, stuff will often show bluish or cool color when dry.

Hope I've answered your question, Bill.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#17

PS

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Notwithstanding the manufacturers' claims about "self sealing" waterbornes, I will never use water based finishes on raw wood surfaces. They pucker the grain and even if sanded and cleaned between coats, kill the clarity and visual depth of the finished film. Shellac is the easy solution, even if just wiped on. Important to use "fresh" shellac mixed no more than 3-4 months.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#18

Ellis Walentine

Thanks Mark

Ellis Walentine

Sounds like a good regime. I've only recently been using Enduro Var and I like it a lot. I have not sealed with shellac prior to finishing, because the Enduro sands so nicely, but I haven't done any experiments with pre-shellac coat to compare clarity. That may be worth a try.

Ellis

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#19

Beads of Courage program

John K Jordan

Watch this one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMCcJxO9mnY

Beads of Courage is a national program which supplies colored beads to children suffering serious diseases such as cancer. A child gets a specific colored bead for each procedure, MRI, needle stick, chemo treatment, loss of hair, surgery, etc. They string them together to remember and maybe to tell their story. Some have hundreds or even thousands of beads.

The Beads Of Courage woodturning (and flatwood) program collects lidded bowls/boxes for kids to store their beads, or some of them. A lot of woodturning clubs participate. Some are brought to the symposiums (over 700 last year I think), some sent to the program office for distribution, those from our club are delivered to the Knoxville children's hospital by a volunteer and kids get to pick a box.

The organization and info for woodturners:

http://www.beadsofcourage.org/

http://www.beadsofcourage.org/pages/woodturners.html

I haven't done many yet but here are my first two. One has "Beads of Courage" chip carved around a basswood band, the rest is cherry. The other is from a big block of poplar. I "hid" a music box in the lid that plays "Jesus Loves Me"



Jamie Donaldson here on WC mentioned once that a couple of parents told him those he made for their children were eventually used as cremation urns. Makes me weepy-eyed every time I think of it.

JKJ

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#20

A Little Caution

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Call General and ask before putting Enduro-Var over anything else. Their FAQ's mention that it doesn't play well with other finishes and they didn't mention an exception for dewaxed shellac.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#21

Re: Procedure

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Thank you for the details.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

#22

Very Welcome HTH 


👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.