production turning

Re: production turning

Russ Fairfield

>I would think that 30 a day would be normal if you are really going to make a decent living at turning wood with no other income. Remember that the turning of the bowls is only 1/3 of that equation.

The marketing and distribution will easily take up the other 2/3 of your time or you will have to pay someone else to do it for you. Either way they are a major cost of doing business.

I often hear the arguement that, "My wife does that for me, so there is no cost". Not true!! She could be working the same hours at a real job that pays better.

Most woodturners who claim to be earning their living at this are really hedging the truth. Look a little past what they are saying and you will usually find someone who is retired, has money in the bank or investments, or a wife with a good job.

Re: production turning

Joel Hunnicutt

>I try to produce 4-5 pieces a week to keep up with the galleries and retail shows I do and that takes almost all of my free time. I can't imagine turning out 30 pieces a week and still enjoy doing it. It seems like creativity would have to go to zero, there wouldn't be any time to think, just turn.

Re: production turning

Edward

>And, don't forget, that you still have to sell those bowls. Either yourself or through a retailer or gallery. There are no sales without a buyer - and sometimes these are hard to find. Not everyone lives in an area (or country) where one of a kind or hand made wooden bowls are appreciated or purchased. I have heard other turners say " Oh, I don't sell my work here"! But looking for customers in other cities (or countries) costs money , too.

Commercial woodturning, like any other business, needs to have everything in place to be successful. Eg. Source of raw materials, an efficient process, customers (or demand) etc.

Re: production turning *LINK*

Fred Holder

>Most woodturners never attempt to make a living from their hobby or craft, they may sell a few pieces to help support the hobby, but let a full time job put food on the table and pay the rent. When I interviewed Richard Raffan in 2001, I asked him how he got started as a professional woodturner. He said it helps to have a partner with a good job. He also stated how he works:

"Like most full time turners, Richard had a bread and butter product that helped pay the bills and provide food for the table in those early years. In his case it was the little wooden scoop. He said that he has made over 45,000 of these little scoops and for several years they provided a major part of his income. Interestingly enough, none of Richard�s little projects were pens. In fact, he firmly says, �let it be known that Richard Raffan desires never to make a pen.�

"In the early days, Richard said, he made a lot of salad sets. This was sort of the lead in to his sale of one-off pieces. Each time he made a salad set, there were a few singles left over; i.e., to make a set of six matching bowls he might have to make two or three extras that didn�t match. He started selling these as singles. From this came his one-off market.

"Richard also noted that he used to do a lot of work for a cooperative in England. The orders were nice but they came in two or three times a year and maybe two or more orders in an envelope

for say: 60 six inch bowls, twenty 12 to 14 inch bowls, maybe sixteen 18� x 4� and they would ask for delivery in four weeks. Then, he said, you have to begin negotiations.

"Richard�s new book is an extensive upgrade of his first book and carries the same title, �Turning

Wood with Richard Raffan.� Richard has written five books, the fifth one is just coming out and is a completely revised and updated version of his

first book Turning Wood. He has made five or so videos on woodturning, and makes several teaching excursions like this one at Puget Sound Woodworking Center each year He does demonstrations at events like the Utah Woodturning Symposium. I asked him how he managed to still find time to turn wood. He says that these really take up a small part of his total year (about 6 to 8 weeks) and that he still makes a very good living from turning wood. He said that he turns about 600 hours a year. He gives an example of how he works. He might go to the mill and pick up a trailer load of wood, say enough for 200 salad bowls, plus the additional small bowls that come from coring the larger bowls. He will rough these out in about 2-1/2 days. Today, however, his bread and butter product is bowls, bowls from about 8 inches to 14 inch. He says that he likes to keep around 1500 rough turned bowls on hand to meet the incoming orders."

How many of us can rough turn 200 salad bowls in 2-1/2 days, plus the cores from those 200 salad bowls?


Fred Holders Domain Site

Re: production turning

Edward

>And then find customers for those 200 bowls who are prepared to pay the going rate (whatever that is), for a hand-made wooden bowl.

I would like to know what the wooden ware market in Great Britain is about. We read book and magazine articles about people like R. Raffan. Ray Key and Dave Register who sell what seems to be a tremendous quantity of bowls, cutting boards, spurtles, door stoppers etc. Why do the English people buy this stuff and how can we get people in our own communities to do the same.

In quiet, personal conversations more and more woodturners are asking "what do I do with this stuff now". We can't give it away, family members have enough, and to sell our work at cut rate prices doesn't seem worth while either.

Re: production turning

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Thanks for the post Fred - this whole thread is very interesting to me: all my time and energy right now is being spent pursuing woodturning, to hopefully do much more than just pay for itself as a past-time hobby. Your comments from your interview with Richard Raffan were very intersting; thanks for posting them.

David

Re: production turning

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Well I don't turn 32 bowls in a day, but then again, I don't have that much time to devote to turning that many bowls. I have a friend who does though, and I don't know that he does that many in a single day either. I would be interested to know the sizes of these bowls, and how long of a day this guy is putting in.

I make my living at woodworking, and as Russ says, I can say, along with many other people I know, my wife has a good job. I do not just turn bowls. I turn "job work", usually spindle work that people bring to me. I have been teaching turning for almost 10 years now, and that is a significant portion of my income. I also agree with Joel. I used to turn nothing but pens, a condition forced on my be a small shop and the need to produce significant income. I was very successful at it, but I got to hate it because of the monotony of it all. I know people who do very well at things like hollow forms, but it is still production work, no matter how you look at it.

Unlike most turners, I also build furniture on a custom basis, with occasional short production runs of items for a show now and then. All of these things combine to provide a decent part time income, because until all my kids graduate from our homeschool, it is exactly that. However, we have books that we keep, and while I am not the best at keeping track of my time, I keep track of it well enough to know that I am turning a profit. I am turning enough of a profit that I am able to buy a Minimax combo machine this year.

Could our family subsist on my income alone? Not in the style to which we have become accustomed, but if it came to it, we could change enough things that we could. But I do not forsee that happening anytime soon. I talk to a lot of people who want to go into woodworking as a business, but the woodworking is probably the least part of it. You have to be a businessman first and a woodworker second. If you don't get that straight, you won't make it.

Bill

Re: production turning

John Lucas

>Well said Bill. I've been involved in Photography for over 30 years and I've seen and awful lot of good photographers go down the tube because they weren't good businessmen or salesmen. I suspect most woodworkers have the same problem.

Personally I don't have a production personality. I make about 50 each of 3 different sizes of mirrors and about 50 to 100 christmas ornaments and 50 to 100 wine stoppers. The rest is one off pieces that are usually some sort of commission or my one of kind art pieces that I'm holding on to for now.

I brought this up because I'm a fairly fast turner and 32 bowls in one day seemed like an awful lot. Not questioning his skill, probably just my lack of skill. Of course if you do that on a regular basis you probably don't waste very many movements. I imagine Dave Register has it down to a science. I think he mentioned in one of the other articles how he has to spends 2 or 3 days a week doing the business end.

Re: production turning

Bruce McElhaney Spring Lake, MI

>Like John, I've been a self employed professional photographer for over 30 yrs. Photography, like woodworking is considered a hobby to most people. So to make a living at it you need to be efficient and very business like. Obviously the skills involved should be at very high level, all depending on the type of speciality. I believe If you're disciplined and motivated enough you can succeed at most anything you choose, including woodturning.

The "professional" needs to find a delicate balance somewhere between quanity and quality, wether it's in photography or woodturning. Personally I'd rather do fewer bowls and charge more money for each one. However, if it takes 32 bowls a day to make a living, then that's what you have to do. So you'd better be pretty darned efficient at it.

Re: production turning

Duane

>when I retired form the rat race and devoted all of my time to woodturning I made my self a promise that if I ever got to feeling like I was punching a timeclock I would sell all my tools and lock the shop door and never go back.I don't do production work.I turn what I want when I want .

Re: production turning

Arch

>I suspect that in most human endeavor you can either enjoy a hobby, practice a profession or drive a trade. Fortunate are the very few who can find both satisfaction and a good living while enjoying all three aspects of woodturning. Arch