Spindle Gouge Sharpening

Hi Doug,
Good question. I recently got a lathe and a Wolverine jig for our summer house and I haven't exactly figured out the best ways to sharpen anything yet. I'm mostly a bowl gouge user, and I'm accustomed to the little jig that Ellsworth made for me decades ago, a little block on a stick with a hole for your gouge to go through. The stick pivots in a pocket on the end of the stick, and then the edge is swung across the sharpening wheel. I recall talking to Kevin Clay about the pivot jig for the Wolverine, because I questioned whether it yields the same geometry at the edge. For example, I sharpened a gouge this morning with a Liam O'Neil grind and the swept back edge doesn't look right to me. I wonder if anyone has come up with a solution that would mimic the Ellsworth jig result. 

I also am interested in how to a spindle gouge. Any advice is welcome.

Ellis

PS, I just turned this little salad bowl from a red cedar log that must have grown sideways before reaching for the sky, creating a natural bend in the wood that resulted in some really intriguing curls and color. I have a few more chunks that I'm anxious to play with. 

Glenn Lucas sells a nice color and laminated chart with jig settings for use with four of the most common sharpening systems but, it does not include the spindle gouge.  I have had good luck with these settings.

Doug,  There are many answers.  Here is mine.  I use a 40 degree bevel on my spindle gouge.  That is the angle between the inside of the flute and the ground edge at the nose.  Easy enough.  But what about the wings?  Actually, the same answer.  On the side/wing, I grind my wing such that the inside of the flute to the ground bevel is also about 40 degrees.  I say "about" because I freehand grind on a table set at 40 degrees.

For the Wolverine, here is how I set it up.  The jig has two settings:  the sliding bar goes in and out, and the Vari-Grind has the hinged arm.  

1. Place the gouge in the Vari-grind.  I have 8" wheels and set mine to 2.25" (if I recall correctly).  I have a stop block next to the grinder and just gauge to that.  I set it so long ago, I don't recall the actual number.  Its not that critical.

2. Set the hinged arm to the middle of the motion range.  Lock it for now.  Place the Vari-grind in the sliding bar cradle and slide it in/out until you get to a 40 degree bevel angle on the nose (straight on).  Lock the slider.
   NOTE: It is important to understand that the Vari-grind hinged arm sets the nose angle.  The sliding bar set the wing angle.  You are going to go back and forth between the two adjustments to sneak up on the setting.

3. Now rotate the Vari-grind in the cradle so that the wing is against the wheel.  The farther you swing, the more swept back the wings will be.  With the wheel stopped slide the bar in or out until you get to the desired adjustment.  Lock it.

4. Now, go back to the nose angle and readjust to 40 degrees.  Lock it.

5. Repeat 3 and 4 until you get to the desired angles.  It usually takes about 3 iterations.  

All of this assumes that you can measure 40 degrees (or your desired setting) with a jig or whatever.  I have the Raptor set-up thingy from Craft Supplies.  I have Stuart Batty's blocks.  You can do it with a protractor.  Over the years, as I wear out tools, I turn the stubs into "perfect grind" set-up tools.  I have one for bowl gouges and one for spindle gouges.  I can use them for setting up the Vari-grind too.  I knocked the handles off the tools and labeled them as set-up tools.

Joe

This is all I do with my Vari-grind - I have the chart mounted by the grinder. I just change the nose angle for spindle gouges.
Problem is the models of the Vari-grind has changed over the years so they aren't all identical.
Sharpening - Thompson Lathe Tools

Forgot Step #6.  Once you have the angles dialed in, use a scratch awl to mark the sliding arm and the swing arm for repeatable results.

I use the Wolverine and Varigrind inserting a one inch block of wood in the Wolverine to raise the angle.  This was suggested by John Lucas years ago and works well.  Varigraind is as set for bowl gouge so do not have change any settings.  My first post in the new format.  Never got any responses when I could not update my old User Name so re-enrolled the other day.

@Mike Brazeau,
You should be able to log in using your original username now.

I know this goes against the "frugality" for many turners, including myself, but I bought a second Varigrind jig.    One each for bowl and spindle gouges.  All the other settings/parameters are the same for both jigs.  Just grab the right jig and go.

What has not been addressed is the desired shape:  40-40, fingernail, other?

And over time I firmly believe even using the exact same jig settings the shape will change and need to be corrected occasionally,.

Turning tool jigs like the Vari-grind don't dictate the overall shape, that is under the control of the person - take more off here, less off there but they do control the angles so it is possible to duplicate the grind angles likely with less metal removal for most people. If the wheel diameter changes then adjustments are needed which is another advantage of CBN wheels.

I agree that Varigrind and other systems can sharpen at the same angle.  I have seen a number of recommendations to "just buy a jig, sharpening will be the same every time."  With zero mention about the shape of the nose of gouges.  Yes, one can adjust the shape as needed by grinding longer where needed, but I have to wonder how many people are buying a jig without any knowledge of shapes, and not getting any info on desired shape(s) in those quick recommendations.  Not doing those buyers justice IMHO.

I sharpen my bowl gouges to the same angle. I had to experiment with different grinds untilI found one that I liked.  I then cut a piece of-vac pipe to slide over the v-arm of my Wolverine.  The pvc pipes cut to fit between the v-arm holder and the vee on the sliding arm.  I have two of the adjustable gouge holders, one for bowl gouges and one for spindle gouges.  I grind my bowl gouges to the same angle and do the same with spindle gouges.  I also use CBN wheels.

I use the method described in Dave Schweitzer's video on sharpening - I think its still on the D-Way Tools website. This gets me a roughly 35 degree bevel and good, easy repeatability.

@swdesign,
Is this it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ojO3WOeWI

That video is only for bowl gouges - the one that has spindle gouges is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdF9mmJtuvU
Look to about 10 or 11 minutes into the video for how he sharpens a spindle gouge with the Wolverine...