Hand Tools

Subject:
Re: now I am confused more
Response To:
now I am confused more ()

David Weaver
Follow up comments to this - I was in a rush earlier.

If you're going to heat treat something by hand, it's important that every component is familiar and that you get experience and then no freelancing. Even if you're controlling temperature by eye, you have to be able to do it the same way every time and without having hot spots or temperature issues.

One of the reasons that I'm not going to send a group of chisels to peters is it would cost a little over $100 to get 3 heat treated (but they would heat, quench and cryo treat 52100, which should drive their ability to get hardness up a point or two higher than I could do). plus return packing, plus tax plus shipping (so figure on something more like $130 with taxes).

The bigger reason is two-fold:

1) I'm not really trying to see if I can match 52100 done with a commercial process (doing that seems to be a source of endless headaches for everyone - getting into overly complex processes with home furnaces, etc).

2) It's the chisels that I have that I"m trying to match, and not the ideal of a certain alloy. I can confidently say that the ward chisel that I have is at least as good and probably slightly better than my chisels.

I did the usual this morning with the folding (we're talking about a couple of thousandths of folding under heavy malleting, not robt. Sorby folding in normal use) 52100 chisel and gave it "more unicorn". It ceased bad behavior, and no damage. We know that's always available to anything of reasonable quality.

I'll ultimately find what I can do in the forge and hopefully match the ward chisel at same geometry. I have room for extra hardness in the 52100 without getting chippy, but overshot it on purpose for this chisel chasing easy sharpening. I learned what will happen (at the same hardness, O1 would not fold much, it'd just give way - so would 1095 or white steel - they're low toughness). When I overdo it with the file chisel or ward chisel, they chip with no habit of holding on to anything. They just chip in very small amounts (and seem to cut more easily because of it). You generally can't see any of the chipping occurring on the file chisel or ward chisel with the naked eye. I can only tell the folding is happening on the 52100, because just like 3V, it will form a small burr that you can feel, but only just. When that burr forms, the chisel is less easy to enter into a cut than the same depth of chipping if you really beat on a harder chisel.

I think this kind of thing is desirable on a knife, but I have no idea why.

All of this is to get a set of properties in use vs. the ideal of the steel. What was becoming the case with files is that I could apply the same heat treatment by eye to different files, but get different results. That was very annoying.

If someone handed me 80CrV2 (which is supposedly very forgiving), I could quench it without issue but probably couldn't guess at the temper sweet spot.

Complicating all of this is the sweetness of heller files and indian files with a palm tree on them. If I can't match the files with 52100 by driving hardness up a little bit, then I guess I'll have to just find a source of modern files in the right size and just buy them. Nicholson makes a huge pipeliner half round file that would be nice if it was available in 1/4" thick flat format.

(I've learned a fair amount long the way here, though. My comments above don't apply to AEB-L. XHP, no problem, but ingot stainless, no go and no interest in seeing if I could wrap them and normalize them with torches. O1, no problem - even when it ends up in the oven with baked potatoes, it seems to turn out OK. I malleted with Charlie's parer and despite sharpening easily, it didn't roll over - that was a surprise. 1095, maybe just my sample, but no go - it chips too much at hardnesses that I can tolerate. I'd planned on going down the ladder a little to something like 80crv2 or some of the other eutectoid steels, and I'm sure they'd be fine, but they wouldn't match the ward).

You're also right that I haven't detailed this process end to end, though I think what I'm doing now is probably the final iteration as far as the making goes. I'm not sure I want to share all of that yet.

Messages In This Thread

52100 experimentation continues *PIC*
same chisels. *PIC*
Re: same chisels.
The reason for the choice...
Re: The reason for the choice...
Better than O1
relying on the charts...
caveat on my sharpening perceptions..
Re: caveat on my sharpening perceptions..
Re: caveat on my sharpening perceptions..
Thanks!
for the non-metal folks..
"through hardening"...
Re: same chisels.
Re: same chisels.
Re: 52100 experimentation continues
These get a trip to the freezer...
Re: These get a trip to the freezer...
if it's like the machine areas...
Maybe toughness *isn't* .....
Re: Maybe toughness *isn't* .....
A stake in the ground is needed
Re: A stake in the ground is needed
There's an absolute property..
optimizing hardness and toughness
Discussion and personal value
now I am confused more
Re: now I am confused more
Re: optimizing hardness and toughness
Thank you for the search results
Testing three chisels..
re-do with one of the (52100) chisels
question
Re: question
26c3 mule...
For those like me unfamiliar with 26c3
Re: For those like me unfamiliar with 26c3
Re: 26c3 mule...
Re: 26c3 mule...
Pictures
pics... *PIC*
(looking back at those four pictures...
When work pressure lets up some,
It'll look the same...
Re: pics...
Re: pics...
Deflecting vs. letting go
I think that's pretty much it...
Re: Deflecting vs. letting go
Re: Deflecting vs. letting go
I didn't check with a metallurgist..
26c3 pictures vs. ward later...
not that much later...the 26c3 *PIC*
Tempered to 380F? *NM*
Re: Tempered to 380F?
and the ward *PIC*
Request
Sure...
Temper temperature...
too much?
Re: Sure... *PIC*
Re: Sure...
David's knife
Re: David's knife
short follow up thought....
Re: short follow up thought....
Re: short follow up thought....
Re: Sure...
© 1998 - 2017 by Ellis Walentine. All rights reserved.
No parts of this web site may be reproduced in any form or by
any means without the written permission of the publisher.

WOODCENTRAL, P.O. BOX 493, SPRINGTOWN, PA 18081