Hand Tools

Subject:
testing high angles..

David Weaver
...actually, i may have done folks a disservice by not posting a video of using the 18 with 45 degrees plus buff (which is similar in tearout control to 50-55 degrees.

The 18 will punish you in something like ribboned bubinga -and here's how:
* you take a thin shaving - minor tearout, OK
* you start planing different directions - OK, still tearout, now chasing tail
* you attempt to increase shaving thickness and the plane dives into the wood, disaster

That's what was on that bubinga board in a missing video between cap iron plane (which will go as thick as you can stand to push it, even on the bubinga or the water+ SG cocobolo), and then I went 55 degrees + buff and then the video. The shavings in the video are 3 or 4 thousandth, and those will induce bad tearout.

The nuance in the video is that i eyeballed 55 degrees before buffing (plane bed 20, eyeballed 35, then buffed).

As we've discussed before, if you want to match tearout control with the cap iron, this is the level of effective angle that's needed (60-65) as 55 wants nothing to do with either of those boards.

My epiphany with the cap iron (other than faster dimensioning) was getting a $12 millers falls #9 (stanley 4 equivalent) to handle the cocobolo better than my very carefully made infill smoother - that was at 55.

Needless to say, in the ribboned bubinga, that 18 was dull quite quickly. But, it did what it needed to do with the cheese blade.

My buffing on that iron is also aided by using yellowcake - to get the step up in angle efficiently, the speed of the yellowcake is needed. If it were V11 or even A2, the time on the buff would have to be double (and I am doing it only on the bevel side aside from edge stropping the back at the most).

As to the wear bevel on BU planes, when you're doing something (as you and I both were) and it works and someone supposes it doesn't, it falls into the category of one person doing something and the other supposing that it doesn't work. That usually leads to the latter person either continuing or disappearing when they figure out how to join the former.

In the clearance wars (which will never get its due in a mini-series on TV), the discussion went from what you and I were doing to asserting that people using back bevels were adding 5 degrees because that's the "ruler trick".

My statement about choosing in this new case, to remove all wear to microscope perfection vs. keeping the back bevel the same size is much like I found with the bottom of my BU planes. Once Larry linked to Konrad's page and I saw the spider webbing on the back of my iron (probably each "injury" from some past contamination), then it became arduous to keep aesthetic perfection all the time. That was bad.

In the case of the (Back side) wear bevel now, if I were using the ruler trick and manged to keep the edge damaged no deeper than the amount of bevel work each time (Which isn't that difficult most of the time), or at least close (let's say half), then leaving a tiny amount of only cosmetic (can't feel it planing, can't see it on the board, then what's the harm?) wear in the chosen ruler trick sized back bevel is preferable.

My move over to the washita has more to do with how fast it works on the back. This sounds foreign to people because it should be slower for as fine as it can go - but my directed pressure is pretty much as hard as I can push without losing control (a factor of laziness).

LN is shipping me a BU plane (or has). When it gets here, I won't ruler trick it, and I expect no problems using it or maintaining clearance now when I didn't (I used the green kitayama type stone in the omnibus below - the one in the omnibus is only unused because (I should be ashamed) I sold the first one and then bought another one when I found it new from japan with free shipping for $55. Japan woodworker sold it for $104 at the time. Highway robbery.

The point of the thin shavings with the planes wasn't to avoid tearout - there is some cross talk here. In fact, if that's what it takes to avoid tearout, I'm out - one can't work the way I do with thin shavings - it results in pulling the stakes of the tent up and taking the wagon elsewhere. The two discussions of thin shavings were (three):

* you mentioned that it may not be as easy to get thin shavings on terrible wood (the bubinga is as bad as anything I've ever seen, it's worse than the cocobolo) - I figured if I could see through bubinga or cocobolo, with their respective higher density and darkness, that'd be pretty good. I could just see through some

* I mentioned separately that if this unicorn thing gets picked up, I would be willing to test BU planes for a magazine as I will be able to use them. Magazine readers will probably be interested mostly in thin shavings, which leads me to conclude that if they have a problem with tearout, it's more likely to be the accidental heavier set or trying a deep set to remove some machine-created damage. Not sure of the likelihood here, but going back to the magazine readers - they won't necessarily understand a nuanced discussion that involves heavier planing, and at the same time, a BU plane at 62 is far and away not the machine for that in the first place (2" wide hardwood shavings measuring 6-8 thousandth)

* when it came to actually planing that bubinga in the video, I planed heavier shavings - about 80% of what I would be able to physically do - and I didn't show the segment of video where the block plane tore up the bubinga, because it wouldn't have served a purpose

The bubinga is separate from the brief tests that I did on curly maple at various angles - solely because it will remain rough even with a 2 thousandth shaving. The wood between the rings is dusty and weak, and it's a challenge to get a smooth surface. Maple, curly included and baked or not, is far better at keeping its shaving together.

In the "old days" heavier work, or wood that moved overnight is what drove me to the cap iron, not thin shavings. I felt well prepared for a group of four large chest panels - bu planes, check - muji hss 63 ยบ smoother, check - veritas large scraper plane, check.

Actually using them when a wide panel cupped over night and I wanted clean it up and make it flat finish scrape and sand it. Total failure.

After learning the cap iron, I sized the entire cocobolo plane blank (sizing, squaring and then planing off the turning saw marks from the side of the plane afterwards) and did all but the very last planing with a single stanley iron and the cap iron set. What a difference.

Messages In This Thread

Creating a mini-ura with buffing wheel?
Re: Creating a mini-ura with buffing wheel?
Re: Creating a mini-ura with buffing wheel?
finger pressure...
Side sharpening
Re: Side sharpening
Re: Side sharpening
Ruler trick
in plane iron testing, I found two options..
Re: in plane iron testing, I found two options..
testing high angles..
side comment about planing in general..
I'll demonstrate thick sometime ..
Re: I'll demonstrate thick sometime ..
Re: I'll demonstrate thick sometime ..
Patience ...
I re-read the articles on COE
High benches and low benches
Re: High benches and low benches
This isn't a snarky response, by the way
Others who do ..
Re: Others who do ..
Re: Others who do ..
Re: Others who do ..
Where I am going....
by the way...
I risk offending a lot of people...
Re: Others who do ..
on the last bit...
One other case for effort...
Something precise.
Re: Initially flat
Rotary tool?
Re: Rotary tool?
Some context
Re: Some context
Re: Some context
A failed attempt *PIC*
Re: A failed attempt
Re: A failed attempt
this is a lie nielsen iron?
Stanley iron
Re: Stanley iron
Re: Stanley iron
Re: Stanley iron
Re: Stanley iron
That pretty much covers it...
Success with applying extra pressure near the edge *PIC*
Directed pressure and progressive work
Re: Success with applying extra pressure near the
Wear bevel *PIC*
Visual difference at the back edge of..
Re: Visual difference at the back edge of..
Sorry, I should've been more precise...
Mini-ura on a new Veritas blade *PIC*
Re: Mini-ura on a new Veritas blade
Re: Mini-ura on a new Veritas blade
Re: Mini-ura on a new Veritas blade
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