Hand Tools Archive

Subject:
very few will care about mines or stamps...

David Weaver
(When I bought used stones at the outset, I tried to buy mostly unstamped stones because at least half of the stamps are fake. This stone was perfectly uniform with no flaws, and about the same color as older shobu and nakayama stones - stones like that coming from people who pick razors shops usually do pretty well and if they're unstamped, they don't cost much and they're better than most current stamped stones -even legitimate stamped stones).

This stone ended up being one of the cheapest stones I ever bought (there are more folks looking for them to re-sell now, and such deals are scarce) at about $37 or something (figure after all is said and done, it costs about $70 to get a stone like that over here if it's bunched together with others by the proxy shipper and then sent on the ground).

It had glue on one end, and one corner is partially broken off, but not enough to affect function. the glue was a little loose, so I picked it off, and under it is this:

正本山合

That's not a specific stamp, but an older style stamp that specifies that the stone is a true finishing stone. IT may be used in combination with other stamps on newer faked or restamped versions, but usually fakers can't resist either clarifying that the stone is nakayama and often maruka (one of the few kanji with a circle around it).

The value of stamps is so high that now the legitimate dealers have decided they can mine-mark unmarked stones if they feel the characteristics are right. I don't agree with that, but never made a profit, so I don't really care. The used market at the time that I sold unstamped used and graded stones would pay twice as much for a stone with a bright purple fake maruka stamp on it and usually a bunch of other stuff all over the stone, and then physical or aesthetic flaws that never would've been stamped at all. People would buy a stone from me for $200 that I graded and showed comparative microscope pictures from (this is why I actually have this scope) on razor edges, and then gloat about a maruka stone that they had that they "only gave $800 for, but it's worth at least $3500 according to the dealer who sold it".

The fake stamp thing is a weird issue because there were dealers who specialize in selling stones in the US (not alex gilmore, by the way) as well as dealers in japan who specialize in selling to europe and the US and they have faked stamps off and on, ultimately getting to the point that it was ridiculous. There is no legal protection for the stamps that they used, so there's no recourse other than getting kicked out of trade groups, but if you're selling europeans and americans and quadrupling the price of stones, why care?

Ultimately, the association in japan decided that since there are a lot of unmarked stones around, the legitimate dealers may also start stamping stones based on their best guess at what they are. I don't like that, but I wanted to do two things:
* put pressure on the antisocial jerk dealers in the US who specialize in marking nearly valueless stones in japan, and then won't take returns - they'll sell them to unwitting beginners for 4-6 times what they are actually worth
* do an at-cost look at a whole bunch of stones, keep a few good ones, and make an expectation for the market that stones would otherwise be sold with some kind of proof about how they work

I bought two stones early on from alex. They were what he said they were and no fake stamps (well, one was more coarse than he said - a suita, but I learned in time that instead of getting what I thought was a steal, I got a fair price on that one and it had excellent feel and there's lots of room for actual use of a strong cutting stone like that - it's kind of the washita of japanese stones). I no longer have either one of them, and he asked if I would give a testimonial and put my name on his website with someone else's testimonial....that was weird, but all stone nuts are a little eccentric and if it was just mixed up from a bunch of emails with other people, that's OK. I'm wary of most other dealers - and no matter who the dealer is, it's always going to be about 3 times the price of what a stone would be in japan, and the standards may not be what you're expecting . They're running a business and have costs and can't just sit on 2/3rds of the stones and sell them as "just OK".

no more boring stories aside from the fact that out of a couple of hundred stones, this is the only one out of all of them that unexpectedly had an old stamp on it.

Messages In This Thread

Sharpening Stone Ominbus - here we go
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stone pics... *PIC*
Black Sedimentary Stone *PIC*
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Norton Queer Creek *PIC*
Pic of the stone *PIC*
Re: Pic of the stone
Re: Pic of the stone *PIC*
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edge picture with a razor *PIC*
Very dense....
Re: Purple Welsh Slate *PIC*
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picture of the stone *PIC*
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Pic of the stone *PIC*
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Re: crest complete (And more dursol)
Re: crest complete (And more dursol)
Re: crest complete (And more dursol)
separate, since you got caught in the net...
Re: separate, since you got caught in the net...
Re: separate, since you got caught in the net...
Re: separate, since you got caught in the net...
Wrong R
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Re: Greasy/Coated India Stone *PIC*
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Try bee wax
Fine buffing compound
practically...
one other side benefit
Also with iron oxide bar
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The real Llyn Idwall *PIC*
Picture of the stone *PIC*
Re: Picture of the stone
Re: Picture of the stone
Re: Picture of the stone
two llyn idwalls
Re: two llyn idwalls
Re: Picture of the stone
Re: Picture of the stone
Re: Picture of the stone
Black Hone Slate *PIC*
pic of the stone *PIC*
Smiths Hard Arkansas *PIC*
pictures of the stone *PIC*
Re: Smiths Hard Arkansas
Re: Smiths Hard Arkansas
Japanese "Barber Oilstone" *PIC*
Pictures of the stone *PIC*
Slurried Trans Ark.. *PIC*
Am I understanding......
Re: Am I understanding......
This is sort of a loaded situation...
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
The other real issue with japanese finishers..
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
Clarifying hollow grind
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
dan's and washita.
Re: This is sort of a loaded situation...
Soft India?
soft vs. hard
Re: Soft India?
Now I am more confused
Re: I will make an exception…
Separately - a very good point made
Not defending wiley...
Re: Now I am more confused
Re: Now I am more confused
That explanation makes sense *NM*
Re: Am I understanding......
Picture of the stone *PIC*
Extra Fine India Stone *PIC*
Picture of the stone *PIC*
Sigma Power 13k *PIC*
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Re: Sigma Power 13k
Pic of the stone *PIC*
Re: Pic of the stone *PIC*
The rules of accommodation
Re: The rules of accommodation
Re: The rules of accommodation
Re: Pic of the stone
Re: Pic of the stone
Jackson Lea 5 micron "yellowcake" on softwood *PIC*
Is poplar soft enough
Re: Is poplar soft enough
picture of the wax bar *PIC*
Llyn Idwall *PIC*
Re: Llyn Idwall
Re: Llyn Idwall
Charnley Forest
releasing particles
Turkish Oilstone *PIC*
pic of the stone *PIC*
Dursol (Autosol) Metal Polish *PIC*
Tying up loose polishes - Autosol *PIC*
Re: Tying up loose polishes - Autosol
pic of the dursol *PIC*
(this one is good enough for everyone)
Re: (this one is good enough for everyone)
Re: (this one is good enough for everyone)
Re: (this one is good enough for everyone)
Re: (this one is good enough for everyone)
LV Green / Formax Microfine *PIC*
picture of the compound *PIC*
attractive old wives tales
Relevance? Question?
Re: Relevance? Question?
Clear summary thanks
Another White Alundum Japanese Stone *PIC*
Re: Another White Alundum Japanese Stone *PIC*
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pic of the stone *PIC*
Re: Very expensive (to me) japanese natural
Dan's black Hard Ark *PIC*
pic of the stone *PIC*
Coticules - Fine and Coarse *PIC*
pic of the stones *PIC*
garnet
not sure
Unknown Japanese White Alundum *PIC*
the stone.. *PIC*
question
Looking at this picture..
I do both
Hand American 0.5 micron Green Chrome Ox *PIC*
pic of the oxide *PIC*
The purpose of the omnibus...
Not unicorn related, more clear
What else the creator of the weaver bevel post? *NM*
question for David
Re: question for David
Thanks David *NM*
Supremely Fine Japanese Natural Razor Stone *PIC*
Picture of the stone *PIC*
Re: Picture of the stone
Re: Picture of the stone
Re: Thank you, David
Re: Thank you, David
very few will care about mines or stamps...
Practical question
Re: Practical question + another regarding scale..
Re: Practical question + another regarding scale..
Scale overlay
Re: Scale overlay
sorry, addressed differently
request
Brief comments...
Re: Practical question
Re: Practical question
Fine White Okudo Suita *PIC*
Picture of the stone *PIC*
Shapton Cream *PIC*
Pic of the stone *PIC*
Fine washita *PIC*
Pic of the stone *PIC*
Kitayama waterstone *PIC*
Re: Kitayama waterstone *PIC*
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