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Subject:
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing

TomD
The virus is out of the bag, I don't know of any serious opinion at this point that takes seriously the idea that vaccination or anything else is putting it back in the bag. The vaccine does not stop infection, replication, or transmission, it in fact isn't a vaccine to the extent that recently the CDC created a new definition of "vaccine" that does not require it to confer immunity, only sorta a best efforts at it. The semantics are not so much the thing, relative to concerns about the unvaccinated, what is important to understand is that vaccinated people are far from pulling their weight on this, and given that many unvaccinated people are incentivized to not get infected, while the vaccine crowd is expecting "back to normal", I am not sure who is the greatest risk. Particularly since it is more than possible that a vaccinated person might kill an unvaccinated, but not very likely in the opposite direction.

It is important to understand that large proportions of the population can't and far larger parts shouldn't get the vaccine. Very weak or compromised people can't take it; some people react; heart disease in some cases; and most of the young, etc... Israel got a lot of UnV. people dying at one point, but that is to be expected due to the fact that many old people can't take it, or if they do, do not get much effect from it. So when you hear about people who are infected, or dying who are not vaccinated, they may not have been asking for it.

It is also worth understanding, just to mention two very ProV entities, that both the WHO, and the UK advisory group have recommended not vaccinating under 15 year of age people. And the trials currently underway for under 12s in the US will not be complete until '24, or '25. So unless we just keep re-writing the law on no basis, we should not be touching people in those age groups for years.

In the EU, and many other places, proof of prior infection (not backed up by any crap about weekly tests, etc...) is equal to proof of vaccination. So that cohort is out. That is a huge number, because while 10% ish in the US officially tested positive for COVID, a lot larger number already has had the infection. It is malpractice to vaccinate them.

Of course due to both a very long and very racist history of trying vaccines out on various groups, including blacks, there is low, low vaccination levels in those communities. I'm not going to tell them what they should think.

Pregnant women have a lot to think about, or trying women. They may consult their doctors and be told not to take the vaccine due to some of the scary studies, or because they have conditions of concern, but that is a potentially large group. The Rowe decision was the private right to consult one's doctor, which led to the privacy right to an abortion, but if you cut out the private right to consultation, you are undermining Choice.

Vaccinated people are their own greatest threat because they will evolve variants that escape the vaccine, that is the nature of evolution. I don't imagine that is where the Delta variant came from, but it is where vaccine resistant variants will come from. Vaccinating into a pandemic is a huge no no, and a product of putting out a vaccine at a high rate of speed. There is a trade off there. What isn't there is the idea that UnV people are threatening V people's health through generating slippery variants.

There are a lot of people who, like me live in the bush, and never see anyone from week to week. Since only 4% of the population has got it in Canada, and 10% in the US, it is really easy to not get it if you are trying not to get it. Most people may not have that option, but many do have it.

So overall feel happy, people are constantly trying to divide you, stop watching whomever is pushing out all the bad information. If it is simple A vs B you are being played. Hang out in the handtool section and see how complicated the threads over there get on something like sharpening. Consider whether it is likely that medicine, politics, vaccines, etc... Distill neatly into a binary choice.

Messages In This Thread

OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Ditto *NM*
Re: you guys are welcome...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Agree...
Re: Agree...
In short, probably not worth it...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Nomenclature....
Re: Nomenclature....
Yeah...
the last part is often lost...
My dad is 73...so is my mother...
Re: My dad is 73...so is my mother...
I think at 15 months shy of 90...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Vaccination vs. Get-the-disease
Wrong start here....maybe I wasn't clear...
A bit wider picture
I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
His point is pretty clear...
Recorded vs. actual Covid deaths
Absolutely
excess mortality...
Still missing the point..
Pfizer data
I think.....
Re: Pfizer data
Thank Goodness...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Interim Parts vs. Outcomes
measuring the outcomes...
Thanks for a good discussion... *NM*
Re: OT -How(!) memory falters with time
Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
The overall response ...
Re: Not So Amazing, Rather Simple
some of us...
clarity is needed....
not to mention..
That is a distinctly modern effect....
One of the hazards of discussions...
I'm not surprised....
Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
separately..
Re: separately..
Of course.....
Re: Booster versus ... Seminal Work
you're right...
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Hi, Johanna...
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
It bothers me less...
Frankly...
Frankly...
How differences can arise
(Message Deleted by Poster)
:( *NM*
Re: Well said
Re: Well said
(Message Deleted by Poster)
To be fair...
Isn't this how we got here?
This was my point from the outset...
Ditto. *NM*
Re: Frankly...
Re: Here are 30 000 reported side effects
Doesn't
The problem
Re: More Bridges! Was: The problem
I will provide more details
Re: I will provide more details
Will post
Re: Will post
Re: I will provide more details
Does roofing count?
we love..
Unfortunately....
Re: OT Doesn't
Well said...
pfizer data and persuasive...
Where did these data come from?
File and preliminary israeli data
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
side effects...
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
at 81...
FDA says no to widespread boost
Re: FDA says no to widespread boost
Alternate link to FDA actions
A good conclusion!!
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