Messages

Subject:
Of course.....
Response To:
Re: separately.. ()

David Weaver
..the overall consideration is a large part for me, both household and wider.

If one of my kids gets very ill, it's going to be worse for me. I'd say my brother in law (nobody got very sick in his household - he actually got sick right after getting the first vaccine shot - just unlucky timing) probably still was nearly a covid death :b His mrs was unhappy - my wife is her more hot headed sister. Such a thing in this house could lead to a lower post count on wood central.

The no bronchitis and flu vaccine is separate - I learned something because I read. It was something that nobody ever told me but it's plainly stated in peer reviewed studies. I can't expect my doc or P.A. to know that off of the top of their head.

In the case you're discussing, it's not just about who is getting covid now, it's what will things be both for them and for everyone who comes in contact with them two variants, or five variants from now? They may have far better immunity and the overall outcome might be positive.

Yahoo (which I don't usually read - but it's my email) had an article from an ER doc (and also Harvard Med teaching staff). He is differentiating the same thing I am - the first two shots put people in a different class vs. the unvaccinated.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-variant-unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-people-are-not-in-the-same-ballpark-in-terms-of-risk-141843308.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_03

I read this to get the information on the two shot relative risk - to see if it was in there. It is, but interestingly, buried in it (this being an ER physician who is likely seeing a lot of covid patients).

[quote]“I think that given that we don’t have a real emergency on our hands with respect to breakthrough hospitalizations in the sense of we’re not having hospitals overflowing, it would be very wise to study what we should actually do, rather than guessing,” Faust said.[/quote]

Note that he mentioned the same things I mentioned early on (a couple of months ago?). The numerical need, if it really leads to anything better in the long term, and the notion that we may be "doing it to do it" because doing more makes us feel like we'll be better off.

Separately, this keeps circling back to implications that what I'm talking about is self-centered and can lead to worse outcomes for others. That's factually incorrect. I am talking about what leads to better outcomes, especially in potentially catastrophic situations (such as a variant that develops that's not well controlled by a vaccine, but is by a combination of vaccine and natural immunity gained over time).

He also touched on what I suggested very early on, too - when you have unvaccinated cohorts moving virus around at a much higher rate, then the booster over convincing the unvaccinated cohort may not yield much fruit.

What keeps coming up against my point is comparison on the first shots to unvaccinated, or deaths or severe illness of unvaccinated individuals. That's not what this discussion is about - it never has been except for attempts to push toward that or use evidence for a different situation instead of reviewing data from the actual scenario we're discussing.

I see in the article that relative death studies now have the vaccine against delta at 8 to 29 times more effective than being unvaccinated. I don't know if these are age or cohort adjusted- they're a little low (i would expect something like 50+ , but who knows - I can't actually get data to look at and parse).

Messages In This Thread

OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Ditto *NM*
Re: you guys are welcome...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Agree...
Re: Agree...
In short, probably not worth it...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Nomenclature....
Re: Nomenclature....
Yeah...
the last part is often lost...
My dad is 73...so is my mother...
Re: My dad is 73...so is my mother...
I think at 15 months shy of 90...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Vaccination vs. Get-the-disease
Wrong start here....maybe I wasn't clear...
A bit wider picture
I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
His point is pretty clear...
Recorded vs. actual Covid deaths
Absolutely
excess mortality...
Still missing the point..
Pfizer data
I think.....
Re: Pfizer data
Thank Goodness...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Interim Parts vs. Outcomes
measuring the outcomes...
Thanks for a good discussion... *NM*
Re: OT -How(!) memory falters with time
Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
The overall response ...
Re: Not So Amazing, Rather Simple
some of us...
clarity is needed....
not to mention..
That is a distinctly modern effect....
One of the hazards of discussions...
I'm not surprised....
Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
separately..
Re: separately..
Of course.....
Re: Booster versus ... Seminal Work
you're right...
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Hi, Johanna...
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
It bothers me less...
Frankly...
Frankly...
How differences can arise
(Message Deleted by Poster)
:( *NM*
Re: Well said
Re: Well said
(Message Deleted by Poster)
To be fair...
Isn't this how we got here?
This was my point from the outset...
Ditto. *NM*
Re: Frankly...
Re: Here are 30 000 reported side effects
Doesn't
The problem
Re: More Bridges! Was: The problem
I will provide more details
Re: I will provide more details
Will post
Re: Will post
Re: I will provide more details
Does roofing count?
we love..
Unfortunately....
Re: OT Doesn't
Well said...
pfizer data and persuasive...
Where did these data come from?
File and preliminary israeli data
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
side effects...
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
at 81...
FDA says no to widespread boost
Re: FDA says no to widespread boost
Alternate link to FDA actions
A good conclusion!!
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