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Subject:
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed

David Weaver
So, this is similar to a family situation prior to vax. BIL gets covid at work, he and his wife get it, then all three kids do. All three kids (including one very young) have a minor fever and slight fatigue for a couple of days, and BIL and SIL both had some symptoms (which would probably be classified as mild) for several days.

But they may not have stronger antibodies and be far better off than me (the israeli study says that - we need to see independent confirmation). My bronchitis is far worse than their covid was, and I've had bronchitis somewhere around 75 times. But I've had it so often that I don't pay much attention to it until I start to have severe muscle soreness from it or significant singificant prolonged lost sleep.

In my view, they quarantined, infected each other, all came out of it mild and with no known further infections.

I am currently (personally) hoping to get delta because I believe it is the safe move on my part, but I may not get it and I will continue to evaluate data, and if I feel ill, I will separate myself from others. I am not hoping to get data in a group full of sneezers.

What's being lost here is that you and I don't know what the better outcome is in the intermediate or even near, let alone long term. It may not be getting boosters. It may be. The data is so robust that it should be easy for us to see several cohorts, but it is not public (I would temporarily trade my metallurgical scope to get a look at it and drill down for my household).

What stands out to me is in the israeli study, 66000 or something individuals were tracked and there were zero fatalities from covid in the retrospective study. This is extremely strong evidence for terminal health for anyone who has either had covid or two shots - that is my ultimate goal - nobody that I know dies unnecessarily.

I am willing to be wrong - but I view this as a case of overfertilizing (the potential).

As I Posted above, I know four people who have gotten the third shot, and only from another forum. The first person to get the shot had a strong reaction to it, had a cardiac event and triggered her pacemaker. I think this is a sad outcome so far, but she should recover. At the outset of this, I voiced concern that strong reactions can sometimes create an overall worse outcome for a population (the meningitis vaccine comes to mind and its use as a placebo comparison is spurious at best when other vaccines are studied), even though for a given individual, the outcome may be better. This is a current event, and the other three got boosted yesterday and haven't posted. As the forum has turned antivax, I can't stand to read it so I may not check for a couple of days.

I doubt this kind of thing will be the norm, but it's a poor coincidence that it was the first person to get boosted on that group as it just feeds confirmation bias.

AT this point, I actually don't know anyone who has gotten a symptomatic case of covid who had two shots.

(For reference, the shot involved with the reaction above is moderna...I don't know that it matters, it's just one incident).

But we are on dangerous ground if we allow confirmation bias to keep us from observing overall outcomes and doing something intelligent, and that is studying multiple time periods or multiple mode models. The fertilizer reference is my point here - generally, the outcome is better in the garden with fertilizer. Sometimes more isn't better, though.

I know your intentions are good. Mine are, also. But in this case, I'm starting to think more like chess strategy and less like tactics, if you're familiar with chess discussion. There is also a part of my mental model that involves waiting to boost when there is a variant that evades the vaccine in a substantial way (substantial to me is mortality and morbidity). I have the luxury of being able to stay away from anyone who would be considered significantly at risk.

Messages In This Thread

OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Ditto *NM*
Re: you guys are welcome...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Agree...
Re: Agree...
In short, probably not worth it...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Nomenclature....
Re: Nomenclature....
Yeah...
the last part is often lost...
My dad is 73...so is my mother...
Re: My dad is 73...so is my mother...
I think at 15 months shy of 90...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Vaccination vs. Get-the-disease
Wrong start here....maybe I wasn't clear...
A bit wider picture
I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
His point is pretty clear...
Recorded vs. actual Covid deaths
Absolutely
excess mortality...
Still missing the point..
Pfizer data
I think.....
Re: Pfizer data
Thank Goodness...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Interim Parts vs. Outcomes
measuring the outcomes...
Thanks for a good discussion... *NM*
Re: OT -How(!) memory falters with time
Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
The overall response ...
Re: Not So Amazing, Rather Simple
some of us...
clarity is needed....
not to mention..
That is a distinctly modern effect....
One of the hazards of discussions...
I'm not surprised....
Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
separately..
Re: separately..
Of course.....
Re: Booster versus ... Seminal Work
you're right...
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Hi, Johanna...
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
It bothers me less...
Frankly...
Frankly...
How differences can arise
(Message Deleted by Poster)
:( *NM*
Re: Well said
Re: Well said
(Message Deleted by Poster)
To be fair...
Isn't this how we got here?
This was my point from the outset...
Ditto. *NM*
Re: Frankly...
Re: Here are 30 000 reported side effects
Doesn't
The problem
Re: More Bridges! Was: The problem
I will provide more details
Re: I will provide more details
Will post
Re: Will post
Re: I will provide more details
Does roofing count?
we love..
Unfortunately....
Re: OT Doesn't
Well said...
pfizer data and persuasive...
Where did these data come from?
File and preliminary israeli data
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
side effects...
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
at 81...
FDA says no to widespread boost
Re: FDA says no to widespread boost
Alternate link to FDA actions
A good conclusion!!
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