Messages

Subject:
I think the study data ...
Response To:
A bit wider picture ()

David Weaver
..may have not been noticed. This is the delta part, and this is where we have to observe if we're trying to get the right answer not assume that we always provide a better solution.

"In a separate analysis that compared vaccine and natural immunity regardless of the time of infection, fully vaccinated patients had a higher risk of infection (OR 5.96, 95% CI 4.85-7.33) and symptomatic disease (OR 7.13, 95% CI 5.51-9.21)."

This is just for delta. This data to me is almost unbelievable (it doesn't compare unvaccinated individuals who never had covid, so it shouldn't be read as such - it's people who have had covid, and people who have been vaccinated).

The data pool for those who had covid was 63,000 individuals, and the vaccinated group was much larger (because it's israel and that's what the cross section there looks like). There was a small single-vaccinated group, too, that probably didn't fare as well (I didn't may much attention to it).

There were no deaths in any group (that's important - we're talking about what limits further disease and hopefully with the endpoint of limiting severe disease and death).

Not sure if there are behavior differences or what adjustments have been made otherwise, but the key number there is that the risk of fully vaccinated folks to get a breakthrough delta case vs. those who have had covid previously is 7 times higher.

(worth going back and checking)

"The researchers adjusted for covariates including age, sex, socioeconomic status, and comorbidities, including cardiovascular disease, hypertension, diabetes, kidney disease, obstructive pulmonary disease, immunocompromised conditions, and cancer."

Good. The study is in peer review - we'll see how it holds up. It doesn't appear to have been a sham study at this point, but the 7 times factor with a pretty definitive range in 2 standard deviations is stark.

It should be top priority for the CDC to be examining data in the US to see if the same outcome is observable here. What I suspect we'll see for boosters is comparison of the booster to populations where it looks more favorable, such as double vaccinated vs. booster without controlling for prior covid.

By mentioning other future variants, in the context of this study, you may be unintentionally making my point.

Messages In This Thread

OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Ditto *NM*
Re: you guys are welcome...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Agree...
Re: Agree...
In short, probably not worth it...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Nomenclature....
Re: Nomenclature....
Yeah...
the last part is often lost...
My dad is 73...so is my mother...
Re: My dad is 73...so is my mother...
I think at 15 months shy of 90...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Vaccination vs. Get-the-disease
Wrong start here....maybe I wasn't clear...
A bit wider picture
I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
His point is pretty clear...
Recorded vs. actual Covid deaths
Absolutely
excess mortality...
Still missing the point..
Pfizer data
I think.....
Re: Pfizer data
Thank Goodness...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Interim Parts vs. Outcomes
measuring the outcomes...
Thanks for a good discussion... *NM*
Re: OT -How(!) memory falters with time
Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
The overall response ...
Re: Not So Amazing, Rather Simple
some of us...
clarity is needed....
not to mention..
That is a distinctly modern effect....
One of the hazards of discussions...
I'm not surprised....
Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
separately..
Re: separately..
Of course.....
Re: Booster versus ... Seminal Work
you're right...
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Hi, Johanna...
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
It bothers me less...
Frankly...
Frankly...
How differences can arise
(Message Deleted by Poster)
:( *NM*
Re: Well said
Re: Well said
(Message Deleted by Poster)
To be fair...
Isn't this how we got here?
This was my point from the outset...
Ditto. *NM*
Re: Frankly...
Re: Here are 30 000 reported side effects
Doesn't
The problem
Re: More Bridges! Was: The problem
I will provide more details
Re: I will provide more details
Will post
Re: Will post
Re: I will provide more details
Does roofing count?
we love..
Unfortunately....
Re: OT Doesn't
Well said...
pfizer data and persuasive...
Where did these data come from?
File and preliminary israeli data
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
side effects...
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
at 81...
FDA says no to widespread boost
Re: FDA says no to widespread boost
Alternate link to FDA actions
A good conclusion!!
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