Messages

Subject:
Wrong start here....maybe I wasn't clear...

David Weaver
the vaccine is the tool that allows you to get natural immunity later (at least if you're following the data - there's so much of it it's hard to argue against at this point).

The very young can seemingly (not always, but materially so) get infected, have a transient infection and move on. Late teens and symptoms start showing up. Around there with obesity and diabetes or other factors and things go downhill quickly.

So while, I'm not a fan of people going vaccine-less, it's their choice at this point and not mine - and not what I'd advocate following data.

It's also probably going to be an unfortunate reality that if we actually make data-based decisions to get the best possible outcome and to attempt to get the best outcome for the next variant, and so on, not everyone will get the same thing. Perhaps at 44, I would be better off getting covid after 2 vaccines. The chance of long covid is very slim.

But that doesn't mean someone 75 with diabetes would make the same choice - our odds would be different.

This all follows my original post to bill (and it's not really to bill, it's to the point of the original discussion), where is the data saying we need a booster. And now the question changes a bit (at the time, I also posed the question of how do we know we'll be better off in the long term with boosters vs. natural immunity - which doesn't mean only gained through lack of vaccination).

I think we owe it to ourselves to track the outcomes and try to get the right answer. We originally thought we were in for bowling a frame. Now, it's clear we very well may be in for a chess match. If you're going to win in chess, you need strategy and tactics. We're grasping at tactics bit by bit, but what's the strategy? If your opponent makes a move, your possible combinations change and your odds change with them.

The question about whether or not a booster is necessary is past me - for me, I don't think it is at this point, but you always have to observe - it can be uncomfortable to constantly say that your answer could change (I know that this is not you, so it's not aimed at you, but rather the team-based game that everyone seems to have fallen into . What does your "team" say? Well, you don't want to agree with the other "team". That kind of thing).

I posted this study sort of as a continuation, but I have less interest in anyone solving things here and more in seeing that we continue to see actual data as it comes along, and not just data that fits a source's goal. We owe it to each other. We're in it together. It may be no surprise, but when I was younger, I would pick a conclusion and dig in. I would ride it until it was completely indefensible. At some point, I decided to instead see if I could:
1) constantly challenge what I'm seeing or thinking instead
2) also see not if I could absolutely not get out of agreeing with someone that I wanted to disagree with but instead see if there was any way that I could agree with them and find common ground instead.

And even if someone has a point that I cannot get to fit into the new #2, be friends with them, anyway. If they want to be - some people say no to that unless they can get you to be on their "team" about everything, and that's OK.

I'm anxious to see if new data comes out that agrees with the israeli article, and whether or not it survives peer review. It's extremely important at this point. We may survive even if it's buried in favor of a blanket policy that's not optimal, but I think we owe less "I'm right" to each other and more "we are all going to try to solve the problem as well as possible, even if we have to admit that changes over time".

Messages In This Thread

OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Ditto *NM*
Re: you guys are welcome...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Agree...
Re: Agree...
In short, probably not worth it...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Nomenclature....
Re: Nomenclature....
Yeah...
the last part is often lost...
My dad is 73...so is my mother...
Re: My dad is 73...so is my mother...
I think at 15 months shy of 90...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Vaccination vs. Get-the-disease
Wrong start here....maybe I wasn't clear...
A bit wider picture
I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
Re: I think the study data ...
His point is pretty clear...
Recorded vs. actual Covid deaths
Absolutely
excess mortality...
Still missing the point..
Pfizer data
I think.....
Re: Pfizer data
Thank Goodness...
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Re: OT - the Delta and Booster Thing
Interim Parts vs. Outcomes
measuring the outcomes...
Thanks for a good discussion... *NM*
Re: OT -How(!) memory falters with time
Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
Re: Isn't it amazing?
The overall response ...
Re: Not So Amazing, Rather Simple
some of us...
clarity is needed....
not to mention..
That is a distinctly modern effect....
One of the hazards of discussions...
I'm not surprised....
Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
separately..
Re: separately..
Of course.....
Re: Booster versus ... Seminal Work
you're right...
Re: Booster versus no-booster for the vaxxed
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Hi, Johanna...
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
Re: OT - COVID shots - one more thing
It bothers me less...
Frankly...
Frankly...
How differences can arise
(Message Deleted by Poster)
:( *NM*
Re: Well said
Re: Well said
(Message Deleted by Poster)
To be fair...
Isn't this how we got here?
This was my point from the outset...
Ditto. *NM*
Re: Frankly...
Re: Here are 30 000 reported side effects
Doesn't
The problem
Re: More Bridges! Was: The problem
I will provide more details
Re: I will provide more details
Will post
Re: Will post
Re: I will provide more details
Does roofing count?
we love..
Unfortunately....
Re: OT Doesn't
Well said...
pfizer data and persuasive...
Where did these data come from?
File and preliminary israeli data
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
side effects...
Re: pfizer data and persuasive...
at 81...
FDA says no to widespread boost
Re: FDA says no to widespread boost
Alternate link to FDA actions
A good conclusion!!
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