TomD
"I have stayed with the Forum because participation continues to teach me useful information. (just when I thought there was nothing left along comes Kato, Kawai, Weaver and Kees. It took all four to motivate me to try it, with success)"

That is an interesting example, because there wasn't much new about that source, or anything new about the technique, and in fact people had passed over the same information here, and in print many times. It takes being in a receptive frame of mind, to need the item one finds, for it to stick. So i suppose it is good that there is endless repetition available to all of us, so that we can get the memo eventually.

"The very things that you don't like are the things that I value in learning from this Forum. For me detailed "how to posts" are the best part of the Forum."

Obviously how to posts are the lifeblood here, what I am less sure about is buildalongs. Derek is one of the few who does these, and his presentation is at the level of a national magazine, but I have little interest in the how to part of them because I know how to make stuff, and own completely different tools than he does. So for me, I would rather see specific how two things, and show and tell things separately. Possibly the best I know of this is Velosalon, were each week people post what they have been doing in their shop. There is basically zero commentary in response, which seems a little odd, but it does accelerate the pace of the posting. Also most frame guys are pros of a sort, so it would be rude to say too much.

www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f15/

" Posts of stuff made or done provide perspective on the relevance of the teacher to my needs and interests. Critique of what is demonstrated again adds relevance for someone wanting to learn, especially if the skills and interests of the critiquer are evident."

I'm not sure I liked that part. I would rather have the idea with as little claptrap as possible. The info on breakers you eventually had to penetrate your prejudice against all things Japanese woodworky to find stuff that had been out there forever. It will take a huge amount of additional work to produce Derek level posts of work completed, when someone may actually have come across something useful whether they have a highboy to prove it to your satisfaction or not. Much of the best info I have come across comes from cross training in other fields. When I know a field has a technique that 10 000 people use, but some expert in woodworking tells me is impossible, like say heat treating with an OA torch, then that says something. In my case, I like diamond sharpening things, but have had poor luck on durability, so it was great to have input from lapidary types. I also find machine shop info interesting, though I am not yet convinced it was accurate in all respects. But none of these crafts have highboys to show

"Both amateurs and professionals have a valuable role in teaching. If I am looking for the most reliable joint, for example, advice from a professional that has many joints out in the market place, or someone experienced with antiques, will be my most trusted source."

I've noticed that, and it seems to lead to a lot of mistakes. I normally assume people around here are telling the truth. If they say that throwing their wood in the sauna gave brilliant results, I would note that. If someone else says their 2 million dollar wood kiln is great, I am not really sure for a variety of reasons why I would care.

" As far as how to make the joint, the professional's approach my not be best for a beginner. The professional's approach my involve more skill or experience than an amateur can muster."

Assuming we are talking apples and apples. Most professionals have less skill than amateurs, I have taught both. The factory is designed to use people with no skill at all. If one is talking about paid hand tool types, then it can be true. Though in the time and with the effort you seem to have expended since Badger Pond went toes up, one could easily have learned several crafts to pro level.

It is not clear to me that what people lack is skill or 50 new ways to do the same thing. They need to learn some fairly simple things well without sidestepping fundamentals at every turn. Pro techniques are fundamentals learned well, in a coherent way. They are within the grasp of virtually anyone, otherwise there would be no way of ensuring apprentices would make the grade.

" In this case the technique taught by an amateur may be more suitable, even though it may be more time consuming or involve more equipment or crutches. "

Mostly that is the need to complete projects one is not ready for, without having learned the basics. That is OK, and I can dream of 10 crutches a minute, I enjoy the creativity of it. The fact of doing ambitions projects without regard to where one is in the craft is why people don't progress. It is an interesting fact that almost anyone can build almost anything with enough crutches and how-to information, but at the end of 10 years, or whatever, they are still dragging themselves along the floor on a piece of plywood with casters on in, when they could have learned to walk.

People will make very rapid progress if they actually try to practice fundamentals, but they don't. In the seven years of an apprenticeship, much of it would have been labour. One could master the basic skills which amount to layout and plans reading, sharpening, and cutting, planing, and sawing to a line in a few weeks or months. Then after that one would not need the crutches, though they are always useful as workarounds for tools one does not have. Of the basic skills the layout and strategy stuff is probably harder for the jigs etc... guy, so that would be a wash.

In the last 10 years or so, a huge number of people have gotten the hand tools bug, and seem to assume they should be able to do it. And in many cases are pursuing it at a far higher level than the pros of the past. Which just goes to show that what people primary lack is the permission to do this stuff. Once it is assumed as routine, nobody will understand how we ever doubted it.