  WoodCentral Special Guest Chat ERNIE CONOVER December 1, 2004 [EDITED] |
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| Ellis | Welcome everyone, and say hello to our special guest tonight, Ernie Conover, a man whose name is well known to a whole generation of woodworkers. He is a prolific author, with seven books, four videos and hundreds of articles to his credit. He is an award-winning craftsman, lecturer, consultant and expert witness, among his many talents. He also teaches and provides academic oversight for the Conover Workshops — a craft school founded by the Conover family. Thanks for joining us tonight, Ernie! |
| Ernie Conover | Hello everyone, I am glad to be here. |
| Ellis | Before we get too far into this, I'm sure many of you will have some questions about the famous, wood-bed, Conover Lathe. Here is a little background for you: Ernie and his father co-designed the Conover Lathe. They sold their manufacturing company to a Cleveland manufacturing concern in 1989 to persue woodworking education full time. Unfortunately, the new owner went out of business about two years ago so the Conover Lathe is no longer made. |
| Spence | Hello Ernie |
| Carole_in_Va | Hi Ernie and thanks for being here.:-) |
| Ernie Conover | Again I am glad to be here and will answer any questions |
| TD | Hi ernie |
| Russ | Any plans to get back into the lathe business?? |
| Lester | Hi Ernie |
| Texan | Hi Ernie |
| John Lucas | Ernie, someone posed the question a while ago about what you think of Oneway lathes. |
| MarkM | Get paid in full, Ernie? |
| Ernie Conover | I do a lot of design work for other lathe companies these days but I would hate to get back in the business and it is crowded. |
| Ernie Conover | Oneway is probably the best lathe made today. |
| Gerry | Howdy Ernie, Lots of dog-eared pages in my copy of your bowl turnin book. You still recommend Antique Oil for a finish? Kinda hard ta find it these days! |
| Ernie Conover | You can get Antique Oil Finish at the boxes such as Lowes under the Olympic brand. It is the same thing as Minwax. |
| Carole_in_Va | I can't keep my Antique Oil from solidifying |
| Gerry | I saw that brand there and always wondered! Thanks for the tip. |
| Ernie Conover | I buy small 2-oz bottles from McMaster Carr and pour a new can into the bottles. 2 oz is about the right amount for most projects and it never goes bad. |
| Carole_in_Va | That's a good idea! |
| Ellis | What makes this your favorite finish, Ernie? |
| Ernie Conover | Baby food jars work too, but they hold too much finish. Less goes bad! |
| Ellis | You use it while the piece is on the lathe? |
| Ernie Conover | For bowls I like Antique Oil for spindles and my cabinetwork I like Freedom Polish |
| Spence | Do you ever use it for sanding?? |
| johnw | I've had good results with walnut oil off the lathe. |
| Ernie Conover | Walnut oil is non-toxic but never really dries. |
| Ellis | Freedom polish! : -) |
| Russ | Hate to be ignorant. What is Freedom Polish? |
| Don_Pencil | Currently using it and it is great |
| Ernie Conover | That's French polish since Bush declared War on the French. |
| Spence | LOL |
| Carole_in_Va | lol |
| Ron_Sardo | LOL |
| johnw | Ah Ha!:-} |
| Russ | OK |
| Lester | how many coats do you put on Ernie ? |
| Ellis | You're bad, Ernie. |
| Ellis | What do your turning students want to know these days? |
| Ernie Conover | Don't laugh but how to turn. The problem with learning to turn is that the tools are all wrong as you buy them--and dull. |
| Carole_in_Va | Uh oh! :-( |
| Spence | Favorite sharpening system?? |
| Carole_in_Va | Ernie, what's a good group of tools for a beginner? |
| Ernie Conover | The grubstake of any spindle turner is a ?” spindle gouge, a 1” wide skew chisel and a cutoff (or parting) tool. These days I add to this with a large roughing-out gouge—-preferably 1-1/4” wide. You also need a collection of scrapers but I mostly use old files, discarded jack hammer chisels and pieces of car spring for scrapers. (It’s the Scott in me.) |
| Ernie Conover | I have come to really embrace jigs as they make consistent and correct geometry. I use Oneway’s Wolverine Jig in consort with their side grinding jig. You can download plans to build a version of this jig from our website under Ernie Says. You may also get my settings for this and the Wolverine jig from that page. The geometry of a turning tool is very important and many tools (especially spindle gouges) do not come properly ground. I cover geometry in detail in The Lathe Book. I also believe that spindle tools need to be honed to a razor edge, just as any bench chisel or plane iron. I accomplish this by buffing the freshly ground tool with cloth buffing wheels and stainless steel compound. |
| MarkM | Why do I think that was a pre-recorded answer? |
| Carole_in_Va | ROFL |
| Ernie Conover | Chance favors the prepared mind! |
| Spence | LOL |
| Ellis | Ernie and I got together to can a few answers and save you from having to wait for us to type them tonight. Sometimes that method works fine; other times... well, Murphy knows. |
| Ellis | Excellent comeback, Ernie |
| Spence | Murphy's Law strikes again! |
| Ellis | We're having fun. That's what counts. |
| johnw | As someone involved in education, who do you consider the best turning teachers around? (You're included by assumption) |
| Ernie Conover | God, I can type fast |
| Spence | LOL |
| Carole_in_Va | Ernie, my skew gives me fits. I am thinking about rounding it a bit. Is that not a good idea? |
| Carole_in_Va | Or do I just need to work more on technique? |
| Dick13 | Use it to open cans. |
| Carole_in_Va | That's what the thing looks like, Dick! |
| Bobby_W | I think a skew is a skew, rounded ala Raffan, or straght, somedays all is great, somedays best used as a plant stake. |
| TD | Ernie, did I see you turning a piano leg at Lakewood, Georgia about 1989 or so? |
| Ernie Conover | Skews are used by putting only the corner of the shak on the rest and laying the bevel flat on the work. The edge should cross the center line of the turning at a slight angle. The heel should leed with the tow following. |
| Ernie Conover | What the heck is flooding. |
| Carole_in_Va | To much text at once |
| Ernie Conover | As I said I can type fast. |
| MarkM | First, you need lots and lots of water . . . |
| Ellis | Did Ernie answer your skew question, Carole? |
| Ernie Conover | My skew answers did not appear. I will try again. |
| Don_Pencil | We're simple people |
| Ellis | Yes we are, Don. :-) |
| Carole_in_Va | That's what I try to do, but then I get catches. I will keep practicing. Thanks Ernie |
| Carole_in_Va | Yes it did Ernie |
| Ernie Conover | I know Richard Raffen embraces the curved skew but I think it is wrong. It was not known historically and for spindles a straight edge works to a shoulder better. |
| Don_Pencil | Little words and short answers. :) |
| johnw | You probably missed this: as someone involved in turning education, who do you consider the best teachers around (you're included by default:-)? |
| TD | I thought a skew was for chasing threads? |
| Ernie Conover | Raffen mostly turns round things and never does traditional spindles. |
| Carole_in_Va | Is it OK to round the dges of the shank so it does not drag on the tool rest? |
| Spence | LOL, TD |
| rep | I'm looking to buy a chuck. I'm stuck in between a Stronghold and a Vicmarc 120. Can you help me decide which? |
| Ernie Conover | We are the work of those who have taught us, we are there work for better of worse. Rude Osolnik taught me much. You gain something from any teacher if nothing else than to find another. |
| Ernie Conover | Chucks are like cars -- within a price range they are all about the same. It comes down more to your reseller. |
| Bobby_W | Absolute agreement with the teacher comment! |
| Ernie Conover | By all means round the edges of the shank. It is standard tool tuning. |
| Carole_in_Va | OK |
| Gerry | What's your favorite grind for bowl turning? |
| TD | Ernie, has it become impossible for an American company to build a lathe and be competitive? |
| Ernie Conover | Also buff the shank so that the entire tool is santin smoothe and slide well on the rest. Work with the rest a bit high and wax the rest to further aid smooth movement. |
| Ellis | I can't wait to go try out your advice, Ernie. |
| Carole_in_Va | Hmmm...I guess I should polish the tool rest as well. |
| Russ | And take of the rough edges with a file |
| Ellis | What do you say to someone who wants to make a living from turning? |
| Ernie Conover | I beleve it is becoming impossible to build a domestic lathe that appeals to the masses. Sure you can build a OneWay but everthing else is third world for many reasons which I will list. |
| Ernie Conover | First is iron foundries. There are few in the US because of air quality standards. Those that are left are electric and expensive. We have really exported our air quality problems to the third world. |
| Ernie Conover | The second is wages. Wages in China are 1/3 or less than in the U.S. |
| Ernie Conover | While turning was a viable profession up until WWII, it is not a very practical profession today because we have automatic lathes that make it hard to compete. This is completely the case with turning bowls. Bowls must be sold as art and even then it may be hard to get more than low wages. Spindle turning, on the other hand, has much to offer. It can enhance your normal cabinetmaking making it more salable—hopefully at a higher price. |
| Ernie Conover | Architectural turning can even be lucrative. Since a machine made newel post cost on or about $125 asking $175 or more for one that matches the rest of a historic house is nothing. Antique dealers will gladly pay $60 for a spindle that matches the others and allows them to peddle a pricy antique. |
| Russ | I agree with that |
| Spence | Me too |
| Don_Pencil | It is especially hard to get the subcontracted machining done in the USA at prices that will allow us to be competitive. |
| Ernie Conover | Especially in small quantities! |
| Don_Pencil | Tell Me!! |
| Ellis | Getting back to the lathe question, how is it that Oneway can make their lathes competitive? Is it because of their quality or the fact that there isn't a lot of cast iron in them? |
| Ernie Conover | OneWay started out to make the best lathe in the world. They are very smart guys and good engineers. They started with a clean sheet of paper. The lathe cost 5 to 6 grand U.S. Making the best at a high price is easy. |
| adrien | How about Gerry's question as to bowl grind; any preference, and why. |
| Ernie Conover | I go for a medium grind (swept back about 45 degrees) and a flat nose (about 75 to 80 degrees) I keep the flanks about 45 degrees. |
| Carole_in_Va | If one can't afford a OneWay, is there a good alternative? |
| Ernie Conover | I beleve this is the best all around grind for it attacks dry wood and reverse grain better. |
| Ernie Conover | There are so many choices in lathes today that it is a can of worms I do not want ot get into. |
| Carole_in_Va | LOL I understand. |
| Ellis | Do you have a good recommendation for a beginner lathe? |
| Gerry | Thanks for the grind advice. |
| Stuart | Dang, Carole, you don't have your new lathe bolted down yet and now you're looking to upgrade... |
| Ernie Conover | The fact is you can turn decent spindles on almost any lathe. At the symposium in RI two years ago the Japanese top turner turned on the shaft of an electric motor. |
| Lan_B | How sharp is sharp. I gauge by when it bites into my thumbnail without any pressure. Is that a good gauge? |
| HowardNorman | Where would one start to look for a used Conover lathe? |
| Ernie Conover | Sharp is taking hair off your arm. The best test of an edge is visual ( use a lens if you have to). Feeling edges makes an edge with a burr feel sharper than a true sharp edge. |
| Ellis | Is that practical? |
| Carole_in_Va | If you want to be hairless, Ellis. |
| johnw | Some people use the burr to cut with. |
| Ernie Conover | There are a lot of entry lathes today in the $400 to $600 range. The question is how big your faceplate work is going to get. These lathes are fine for spindles and up to 12-inch bowls, but big faceplate work is out of the question. |
| Ernie Conover | After a week long turning class my left arm is hairless. |
| Carole_in_Va | LOL |
| Lan_B | I keep the 4 shapes of small ceramic stones to knock off the edge because I guess I use a little too much pressure on the grinding wheel. I defentely do not go as far as shaving the hair on my arm though. |
| Carole_in_Va | I don't have hairy arms so I guess I'll have to find another way to test for sharp |
| TD | careful Carole |
| Russ | Got a cat, Carole?? |
| Molly | Got a dog Carole? |
| Ernie Conover | Well is my sharpening tips which were recorded earlier in front of a live studio audience. |
| Carole_in_Va | Both! |
| Molly | Great minds Russ... |
| Stuart | How long will it stay that sharp once you touch it to the wood? |
| Ernie Conover | I have come to really embrace jigs as they make consistent and correct geometry. I use Oneway’s Wolverine Jig in consort with their side grinding jig. You can down plans to build a version of this jig from our website under Ernie Says. You may also get my settings for this and the Wolverine jig from that page. The geometry of a turning tool is very important and many tools (especially spindle gouges) do not come properly ground. I cover geometry in detail in The Lathe Book. I also believe that spindle tools need to be honed to a razor edge, just as any bench chisel or plane iron. I accomplish this by buffing the freshly ground tool with cloth buffing wheels and stainless steel compound. |
| MarkM | Got a Chiapet, Carol? |
| Carole_in_Va | That's about all my gouge would cut right now, Mark! |
| Ernie Conover | Spindle tools usually last an hour or so on most U.S. hardwoods. |
| Ellis | So it is worth the extra effort and time to get them really sharp. |
| Carole_in_Va | Do you use slipstones, Ernie? |
| TD | same for bowl gouges Ernie? |
| Ernie Conover | Yes, I can get finishes off of my tools that amaze people. I start sanding at 180 or 220 grit. |
| Lan_B | that sounds like you polish the entire bevel. Is that correct? |
| John Lucas | I've been keeping a strop right next to the lathe and stop really frequently and hit the strop about 4 strokes on each side. I get a lot of time out of one good sharpening. |
| Ernie Conover | I never use slipstones only a buffer as outlined above. |
| Ellis | I'm gonna try that, too. Does the same go for bowl gouges? |
| Carole_in_Va | I just got your book...haven't had time to read that section. |
| Ernie Conover | Yes and the flute alternately. A buffer gets the entire edge sharp while all other methods leave spots that are not. |
| MarkKauder | Ernie - using a buffer, how do you keep the edge from rounding over? |
| Lan_B | are the buffing wheels the sewn tight ones or the fluffy cloth ones? |
| Ernie Conover | You have to hold the tool so that you buff off of the edge. Hold the surface being buffed tangential to the wheel and contact behind the edge so that the wheel bleeds to the edge, sharpening it but not rounding it over. |
| BubbaBob | TD, I'm with you and Ellis wondering about bowl gouges. |
| Ernie Conover | I use a spiral sewn wheel with emery first then a cushion wheel with stainless steel compound for final honing. |
| Carole_in_Va | cushion? |
| Spence | cushion?? |
| Spence | Hard felt?? |
| MarkKauder | What do you think about the leather or cardboard honing wheels? |
| Ellis | Dubbing the edge of a bowl gouge slightly changes the angle of presentation, but I can see how it might work. |
| Ernie Conover | I am sorry; cushion as in pillow. |
| Ellis | cushion |
| Carole_in_Va | I don't think I have seen one of those. |
| Spence | Me either |
| Ernie Conover | A muslin cushon sewn wheel gets into the flute better than felt wheels. |
| Ellis | Sources? |
| Ernie Conover | Cushon wheels have concentric circles of stitching which makes them fery fluffly and resiliant. |
| John Lucas | I think I saw those in Grizzly. Am I correct? |
| Ellis | Ah, as opposed to spiral sewn wheels. |
| Ernie Conover | McMaster Carr and other good industrial harwares. McMaster.com will get you to McMaster Carr |
| Lan_B | I have sticks of the polishing compound but don't know which is fine or coarse. i have red, black and white. What to use? |
| Ernie Conover | I never shop at Grzzly so I would not know. |
| Carole_in_Va | Is the color coding of the compounds standardized? |
| Ernie Conover | Never use the red ones on steel; they are for non-ferrous metals. Use E5 emery for initial work and Stainless Steel Compound for polishing steel. |
| Ellis | They used to be called buffing compounds. White is "stainless" which is what I use for steel. |
| Carole_in_Va | Good...that's what I have |
| Ernie Conover | Color coding is a voluntary industrial trade association standard. |
| Ellis | Y'never quite know, though. |
| Ernie Conover | Yes white is generally ss compund and works equally well on tool steel. |
| John Lucas | Ernie any plans for a new book? |
| Carole_in_Va | So let me get this staight...you buff the inside of the flute, or both the inside and the bevel? |
| Ernie Conover | Not at the moment. I am writing articles and reviews like mad for Fine Woodworking and I have been doing a lot of consulting work. |
| TD | I find that many times a bowl gouge ground on a coarser stone will have more "bite" than one that is polished> Do you see this or do you feel that a highly polished tool is always better? |
| Lan_B | Thanks, the largest bar I have is the white. I used it once to polish a bowl. Went right through the finish and part of the wood!!!! |
| Ellis | What about your school, Ernie. Where do people find info about classes? |
| MarkM | Ni'tall. Thanks, Mr. C |
| Ernie Conover | I generally grind my bowl gouges with a 47 grit wheel. Yes they work better off of a coarse wheel. I suspect it may be the burr that does much of the cutting but I have never tried to prove it. |
| Ellis | Maybe it's like the reason that a serrated knife cuts a tomato better than a smooth one. |
| Gerry | C ya Mark.. |
| Ernie Conover | To learn more about our classes go to www.conoverworkshops.com |
| TD | I think so Ellis |
| adrien | But you buff the bowl as well as the spindle gouges? |
| Ernie Conover | That is definatey the case. |
| Ernie Conover | I never buff face plate tools and always buff spindle tools. |
| TD | I agree Ernie |
| Ernie Conover | Spindle tools always work across the grain while face plate tools are working against the grain half the time. |
| Ernie Conover | Bowl gouges and scrapers work best directly from the grinder. |
| Ellis | Ah, that explains a lot. Thanks. |
| Bobby_W | Still waiting for the answer as to where you would recommend we start looking for a used Conover lathe, or would you rather abstain? |
| Lan_B | good to hear about scrapers, i have tried to burnish but it shortens the life; but straight from the grinder it cuts longer |
| John Lucas | Bobby simply go to all the woodturning forums you can and ask that question. You'll probbly get a response from someone |
| John Lucas | Lan |
| Lester | Ni'tall thanks Ernie and Ellis |
| Ellis | Nite Lester |
| John Lucas | I've found that some of my scrapers do work better with a burnished edge and some straight from the grinder. I suspect it has to do with the hardness of the metal |
| Ernie Conover | Scrapers are a forgotten tool. They really save the day sometimes. Bowl gouges are difficult to get a precise inside curve with. A scraper used lightly for final cuts will bring everything perfect. A good looking bowl scraped will still be pretty in the morning. |
| Bobby_W | Thanks John L, I just thought asking Ernie would be closer to the source. |
| Ellis | Well put, Ernie. |
| Spence | Nite all! Thank you Ernie and as usual Ellis you da Man! |
| Ernie Conover | I have experimented with both burnished (ticketed) and ground. On big round-nose scrapers, tickiting works better, but only slightly. Also HSS scrapers are dificult to burnish, even with the tungsten carbide device sold by Veritas. |
| Spence | John I'll email you tomorrow |
| Ellis | So are you, Spence. Nite. |
| Spence | LOL Ellis |
| Carole_in_Va | ticketing? |
| Gerry | B C N U Thanks Ernie -n- Ellis |
| Carole_in_Va | =burnishing? |
| Bobby_W | ticketing? |
| Ellis | (I knew Carole wouldn't let you get away with that one, Ernie.) |
| Ernie Conover | I can often put people in contact with people wanting to buy a previously owned (like a Rolls, they are never used) Conover lathe. Contact me though my website. |
| John Lucas | It makes a ticketing sound when the burnisher slides off the scraper |
| Ernie Conover | Ticketing is the old English term for burnishing |
| Ellis | Do you tilt the scraper to present a skewed edge? |
| Carole_in_Va | Ah...Ok |
| Lan_B | it is not used, it is experienced! |
| Ellis | You bet, Bobby. |
| Ernie Conover | Experienced you must be a scouter? |
| ............................ dwight joined............. | |
| Ernie Conover | Scrapers are always always presented down hill. How much down hill depends on the angle of the burr. |
| Gil | Ernie, you mean presented to the work piece down hill correct? |
| Ellis | Isn't that a matter of feel? |
| TD | handle high? |
| Ellis | (or, do you have to wait for a killer kickback?) |
| Carole_in_Va | LOL |
| Ernie Conover | Yes to the work piece. The tool should angle downward off of the rest and be rolled left if cutting on the inside of a bowl near the rim |
| Carole_in_Va | That seems logical |
| TD | cutting from bottom toward top Ernie? |
| Bobby_W | Sometimes no kickback, it just launches the workpiece through the shop! |
| Ernie Conover | Scrapers are very much a matter of feel. They are presented very lightly and inertia matters. The heavier the better. |
| Russ | Kickback?? what's that?? |
| Ellis | Happens to the best of us. (Remember Saratoga, about 8 years ago, Ernie? :-) |
| John Lucas | It's a table saw thing Russ. Us turners don't ever have those |
| Carole_in_Va | Don't tell me I have to worry about that evil thing in turning too! |
| Ellis | I really meant catches. |
| Gil | Ernie, would you have a reccomendation on brand for scrapers? My highschool shop used to have enormous scrapers, 1.5-2" wide and atleast 3/8" thick, I have yet to find one to match it |
| Lan_B | I tried to copy Del Stubbs using the scraper at an angle. I learned quickly his lesson about throwing the tool out of the wood and not into the wood. It works great now! |
| Ernie Conover | For bowl scrapers I use old jackhammer chisels epoxied in a piece of water pipe as a handle. The pipe is filled with lead shot. The whole thing weighs about ten pounds but it sure scrapes nice. For match shooting you want a heavy rifle. |
| Bobby_W | Sounds just like what I need for my Jet Mini |
| bep1965 | any advice for a new guy to custom boxes |
| Ellis | Good advice, Lan. |
| Gil | ahh great idea Ernie, jackhammer chisels must be common place |
| Russ | Gil, go the Kenworth graveyard and look at leaf springs |
| Ellis | Sounds like a pretty massive scraper. Maybe that's the idea. |
| Ernie Conover | You can get a brand new electric impact chisel on the tool wall of Lowes for less than $20. Grind it to a dome and you have a scraper. Put it in a shot-filled water pipe and you have a true tool. |
| Gil | Russ, yeah that's what I make some auto body tools out of old leaf springs |
| Ernie Conover | Scrapers are a case of you want to be driving a SUV. |
| Ellis | Or a fully loaded dump truck. :-) |
| Carole_in_Va | Sounds like I might be able to make a lot of the tools I will need. |
| Gil | Ernie, what sort of angle are we talking aobut on the scraper? |
| Ernie Conover | Remember what Rude Osolnik taught me, however: "All tools are hammers, except for chisels which are screwdrivers." |
| Carole_in_Va | LOL |
| John Lucas | Ernie I agree and i usually demonstrate the difference a heavy scraper makes in my class by having each student use my 1/4" on and my 3/8" thick one. |
| Ellis | LOL |
| Ernie Conover | Never buy a scraper! |
| TD | Ernie, once I learned to use the top left edge of the bowl gouge to clean up the inside of a bowl I have nearly quit using a scraper for this |
| Carole_in_Va | I like your style, Ernie! |
| Bobby_W | So if one doesn't work, use a bigger hammer (or screwdriver)? |
| Ernie Conover | Good scrapers = inertia. |
| Gil | So when a scraper is used properly, can one eliminate all tearout? |
| Ellis | Wouldn't that be a scraper of sorts, TD? |
| TD | no, a slicing cut using the bevel and taking a really thin slice |
| Ernie Conover | The edge of a bowl gouge is great for cleaning the outside of a bowl but is dicey on the inside. Invites a catch. The scraper is super safe and makes a good form which will still be good in the morning. |
| bep1965 | any advice for new woodworker |
| Lan_B | TD, how do you scrape an inside curve? |
| Ernie Conover | Don't ruin a perfectly good hobby by going pro. |
| TD | I do not scrape, I cut |
| Ellis | Amen, Ernie |
| TD | too late.... |
| Bobby_W | Anytime you make your avocation your vocation, you find you need a new avocation! |
| Gil | TD where do you live? |
| Ernie Conover | With a big dome scraper (my 10 pounder) rolled left slightly. |
| Ellis | This begs the question, TD and Ernie, of when you switch from cutter to scraper. |
| TD | Georgia |
| Carole_in_Va | When you get a big catch inside a bowl, what happens? Do you break your arm, the bowl, the tool, or all three? |
| Ernie Conover | I live between Cleveland and Warren, Ohio |
| Carole_in_Va | (Just wanna know what to expect) |
| John Lucas | Carol depends on the catch. I haven't brocken an arm yet though |
| Bobby_W | Hold tool firmly, either break tool rest or launch workpiece. Avoid face if possible |
| Dick13 | Depends on size of bowl. Could be all three. |
| Ernie Conover | I look at the gouge as a wood removal tool. The scraper is a tool to finalize a shape. Hollow forms (those with an interior bigger than the opening) can only be scraped and take a lot of time. |
| TD | I use cabinet scrapers after finishing with the bowl gouge....if needed... |
| Gil | Ernie what grit paper are you starting on when you finish turning your pieces?\ |
| Lan_B | I guess that is were the big scrapers are needed so you do not apply as much pressure . |
| Carole_in_Va | I guess best thing to do is tread lightly at first |
| Bobby_W | Tread lightly, and wear a faceshield! |
| Carole_in_Va | Gotta get one of those |
| Bobby_W | And start with small stuff, it hurts less |
| Ernie Conover | If you push on a scraper it changes from a shear cut, where the burr is taking a very thin shaving, to a plow cut where it hogs material leaving an abysmal finish. |
| Carole_in_Va | lol I can't do anything but small on my mini |
| TD | good advice Bobby |
| TD | Ernie, I see a shear cut as one made with the handle low? |
| Ellis | Do you round the bottom edges of your scrapers, too, Ernie? |
| Bobby_W | Oh, I have a Jet mini, never underestimate the power of a 6 inch wet bowl blank at 1800 rpm! |
| Ernie Conover | No, the handle would be high and yes I do round the edges at the bottom. |
| Gil | Ernie, what do you burnish the scraper with? |
| Ernie Conover | My jackhammer chisels are, however, round or hex in the shank so the roll to any attitude on the rest effortlessly. |
| Bobby_W | Ernie, do you always burnish, or sometimes just do a quick touch on the grinder for your scrapers? |
| Ellis | So, with the handle high, you are simply tilting the tool. Whereas, with the handle low, you are getting the same result but in a different way? |
| HowardNorman | Nite all. Thanks Ernie and Ellis. |
| Ernie Conover | I use a Veritas device which is a tungsten-carbide cone in a fixture. |
| Ellis | You bet, Howard. |
| Ellis | Ah, and that gives you the burr you want? |
| Ernie Conover | Scrapers are always used downhill, is the only way I can explain it. Uphill is inviting a nasty catch. |
| Carole_in_Va | What degree do you set it at, Ernie? |
| Carole_in_Va | The Veritas? |
| Ernie Conover | Yes, it gives a super burr in the jackhammer chisel. |
| Russ | Night folks. Thanks Ellis and Ernie, |
| Ellis | No, this 'handle up or down' discussion is one that we ought to have around a lathe sometime. It's hard to describe in words. |
| Lan_B | rounding the bottom, another great idea!!!!!!!! thanks |
| Ellis | You bet, Russ. |
| Clem_Wixted | Thanks Ellis and Ernie thanks for all your advice in your publications. |
| TD | Ernie, I think we are stuck with terms that do not describe accurately the cut. To me shearing is done with the handle low, riding the bevel; scraping is with the handle high...dragging the burr? |
| adrien | Ernie and Ellis, as a hobbyist woodturner, this has been one of the most helpful sessions IÕve had the pleasure of attending in a long time. |
| Gil | Ernie, I take it the burnisher you use for the turrning scrapers is different the the Veritas burnisher for cabinet scrapers? |
| Ernie Conover | This is a special case where the burr is doing a shear cut and this requires the tool to be downhill. |
| John Lucas | Thanks Ernie. Very interesting. Gotto go. Turnings still a hobby and work beckons. |
| Ellis | Thanks very much folks. We're going to call it a night. I will have an edited transcript up there in the next day or so. Thanks for coming! |
| TD | Thanks Boss and Ernie |
| Ron_Sardo | Thanks Ellis and Ernie |
| Bobby_W | Thanks Ernie and Ellis, it was an honor |
| Ernie Conover | I really appreciate the chance to be here and I thank everyone for joining in the discussion. |
| Jack_Ervin | Thanks!! |
| Lan_B | ernie, thanks for all your hints. it has been a great session for me!! Good night all |
| Carole_in_Va | Thanks Ernie...great session! |
| Ernie Conover | Good night. |
| Gil | Thanks so much Ernie |